hey, just carry the discussion on from the last forum.
here is a brief and somewhat crappy set of rules reguarding the weight advantage for tracked robots:

Tracked robot weight advantage rules

Tracks will get an agreed weight advantage if they have all of the following:

1. Tracks must be multisegmented (like a chain), therefor using timing belts or other form of rubber belt does not qualify for the weight advantage

2. Should the tracks come off, the robot must be immobilised ie. the track driving wheels must not touch the ground

3. The tracked system must have complex transmission system (ie chains or belts seperate from the track system) and not using direct motor drive strait to the drive wheels
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You Think You Know Me

i agree on the first 2 but the last ones kinda silly. Who are we to say how they power the tracks. Thats like me saying theycant have a weopon as well or something. They can use drills or friction drive or whatever they want as far as i am concerned.

The second rule is a good one though.
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Andrew Welch, Team Unconventional Robotics

Well, as I've already stated, I like tracked robots, so I dont mind giving those brave enough to attempt building them some encouragement to do so..

I agree rules 1 and 2 are good. I thought there was another point we came up with last time we discussed this, but I forget what it was.. George (MachineHead) might be able to remember, since he's the track guru down here at the moment..

Suggested Rule 3 I disagree with though, I dont see any reason to force a non-direct-drive system. Most non-geared motors will turn too fast to drive the driving wheels anyway, which will necessitate a reduction drive of some sort, but why make rules enforcing it ? Is there any reason behind this rule chris ?

I also agree with the proposed guidelines. I do understand the reasoning behind rule 3 but dont think its an issue. if people cut corners on their drive they compromise its power so what is gained in one area is lost in another and that might purely come down to the choice of if the bot has a large weapon or if it has a tonne of drive force. We need variety, I want to focus on drive first myself.
Not sure what other issues we where discussing previously about tracks but one other component will have in mine is suspension.
I thinks rather than saying 13 kgs we should be clearer and say a bonus of 1, 2 or 3 kg bonus more than wheeeld bots. Wheeled bots are basically at 12.99 and i dont really see that changing so might be clearer to specify how much extra weight they are allowed. Maybe specify a percentage increase.
As a thought T-34 could be used as a guide as it addresses all the rules and I intend to build a bigger one in similar style so might be a good start to actually have a visual. If others agree I could post a few photos and let people vote as they can see where the weight is. Looking from the top its 17 x 37 cm in size at about 6 kgs without batteries so it addresses all the issues and doesn have any weapons.
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Bots that do not destroy you, only make you stronger.

I perfer weight bonuses to be given in percentages such as 10 or 15% for tracks, 50% for shufflers and 100% for walkers. I'm not sure if you want to use these bonuses for the error on the scales or use the same error you use for the wheelies. I suggest keep with the same error margin.
Looks like I'll have to build some more tracks after the Annihilator.
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Get Some!!!

Secretary of the Queensland Robotics Sports Club inc.

ok, thee seems to be some confusion on the 3rd rule, it is causing some controversy and I can see that the idea that I came up with yesterday didnt come out on paper very well, sorry I had a headache yesterday and I was kinda feeling a bit disoriented but i'm fine now
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You Think You Know Me

With the Pole where is the No option!
the pole is setup one sided!

I'm not saying that I disagree or agree, I have to look in to it a bit more.
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It's all about the destruction.

good point Ajax, I added the "I dont think they should get a bonus" option

sorry, when making the poll, i did have all foru options but only 3 came out and I tried editing it a few times but it didnt work.
sorry for the confusion
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You Think You Know Me

Ok, how about this for a weight bonus, if the robot, minus the tracks and guides/runners, weighs 12.0kg or less then the robot will be allowed regardless of the weight of the track assembly. The first 2 rules would apply also. As was pointed out on the ABBL forum, in a flat arena, tracks give very little advantage, if any with regard to traction and this would allow builders the weight points to play with, while still being limiting in that a 20 kg monster tracked bot will struggle to stay under 12kg minus the tracks as it will require bigger, more powerfull motors and batteries to move the whole weight of the machine for 3 minutes.
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Regards,
Marshal J.

yes i Agree with Marshal this would give tracks a fair advantage... it was also my thoughts that the bot should be weiged in with its armour batteries wheapons motors and main drive wheels whether they are a sprocket or a wheel and that it should come to 12 kgs or less then the bonus given would be any added weight for the track system its self this wouldnt include extra battery pods motors ect in the tracks or other wheapons in the tracks so each track system would have to be scrutinised by the event organiser before it was allowed to enter .

m,abee this system could be adopted for walkers as well .. makeing the mian body includeing wheapons motors and batteries controlers ect as the weighable part and any thing else comited to the walking mechanism as the bonus

just a few ideas to keep the debate going

I like that idea, if you are sayng that the bot is weighed without its tracks, road wheels, idler wheels, arms, springs and mounts, everything apart from its drivewheels and body it would enourage making something cool, but is that what you meant. Under those guidelines we could get some really powerful machines happening. But be clear on the downside and that is this very good suggestion will spawn bots that could be heavier than the small bonus everyones having a hard time with now. But on the other hand the actual bot itself would be the same weight as everyone else. Impossible to abuse to build a bigger weapon, and dont forget that tracks Will flatten you batterys quicker.
This suggestion gives the builder the freedom to build his tracks as he likes. It allows someone to build something complicated and not penalise him for it. for example suspension.
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Bots that do not destroy you, only make you stronger.

Yes my sugestion is that the bot is weighed as a 2 wheeled bot includeing its armour batteries drive motors controlers ect . I doubt many would use 4 wheel drive system for tracks but iff they opt for 4 motors as an example that weight is still included in the robots weight only the tracks and idlers suspensoin ect is seperate that way there is not much advantge over an ordinary 12kg bot

And like its been pointed out before , more traction and weight means more energy is needed from batteries ect so there is a limit how much power a bot can carry with in the 12 kg limit the builders will have to compromise between heavy armour or wheapons ect carried on the bot .
I just see it as being an easy way to make sure the bonus isnt abused .. For example....if a builder wants to make a tracked bot he(She?) builds it to 12 kgs then adds another 20 kgs of tracks and components he(She) is not realy going to get an advantage over other bots and is more likely going to be a biger target and run out of power before the end of a match . He(She) could ditch wheapons and opt for more batery power to use the bot as a pusher then finds out it needs bigger motors ect and again is limited as motors are included in the robot weight so has to opt for smaller batteries to compensate larger motors .. and so on


Some might argue that its too hard to take the track system of to weigh it

In those cases the bot can be weighed fairly acuratly by submitting the bots specs to the organiser (Long Before the event ), motor types battery typeand size, dimensions and material sizes and type ( ie Aluminium or steel or titanium )ect then it can be worked out faily close to make sure its close to the 12 kg limit by the organiser. Then the organiser just does a visual inspection on the day and mabee use a tape measure if he isnt sure of the dimensions ect and compares that to the specs submitted .

Marshall's idea is very good. This idea should be adopted if we are to give a weight bonus for tracks. There are some builders who always come up with concepts that are worth taking note of. Marshal is one of these.

I hope to, one day, be able to compete OS and, to that end, will build to within international rules in particular the FRA rules. They do not allow track weight bonus.

One way to try to please everyone including youself is to build your bot in modules. It does take more time but has advantages. My plan is to make the drive seperate from the main weapon. just like a tank. Have it weigh in at 12 with its tracks on without its main weapon but hopefully still have a smaller weapon on its body. It will allow me to have options to go down in weight to be at 12 without a bonus and without main weapon, a bit heavier with a bonus and main weapon and it also allows you to bring it up to a 25 kg weight with added weapons for events down the track.
If you have the patience to make tracks then making a replacable weapon should be easy. And a track system at 12ish should be able to carry a bit of a load so i kinda like the idea of having a solid tracked body that is designed to be a weapons store and smurf mount. Would still like the bonus though
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Bots that do not destroy you, only make you stronger.