I've been sussing out the rules for ICE engines..... one thing has got me confused however....
9.1.1 clearly states that "all comercially available grades of automotive and RC hobby fuel are allowed" BUT then goes on to say that "nitro-methane ..... speciality fuels require prior approval by the event".

The confusion is that "comercially available grades of RC hobby fuel" for RC cars contains methanol, castor oil and nitrol-methanol (which is often referred to as nitro-methane - albeit inaccurate use of chemistry terminology).

Which is the go ? are hobby fuels ok to use or not?
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There is no such thing as excessive carnage.

Last edited by original_carnage on Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total

You can actually buy hobby fuel with 0% Nitro-Methane, Also some hobby motors run on a modified Diesel fuel, not many, but I've seen a few.

I'd also like to find out though about the standard nitro mixed hobby fuel.
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There is no "standard" nitro/castor oil/methanol mix as diferent mixes are used depending on the use of the engine (running-in etc). I can't remeber can't remeber any examples for the smaller aero engines as it has been a while since I took my old plane out for a burn.
I believe the reason that there may be restrictions on methanol engines is that methanol burns with a clear flame (you can't see it burn but you sure as hell can feel it!). But dyes can be added to the fuel to make it burn with a coloured flame.
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kkeerroo is correct.

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I believe the reason that there may be restrictions on methanol engines is that methanol burns with a clear flame (you can't see it burn but you sure as hell can feel it!).

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I know about the 80/20 fuels (used in a lot of planes) -no nitro fuels. I've seen quite a few of the hobby diesel engines as well - since I work in a RC plane orientated hobby shop.... and I understand that "standard" hobby fuel contains anywhere between 5% and 35% nitrol-metheyl

BUT

of all the years I've been involved with RC drag racing and a fair bit of "nascar" style oval racing, 1 (and only one) nitro engine has burnt a vehicle to the ground (of 50 or so engines that have let go bigger than just dropping the con-rod). When a methanol engine "lets go" it will usually snuff out the engine in doing so.

as far as the fuel just bursting into flame, we have done tests both at the hobby shop and at the drag racing club to show how safe the methanol mix fuel is... (the test involved dropping a lit match into a pool of fuel - the result = one extinguished match.... methanol must be heated before it will burn) which is part of the reason hobby engines are often called "glow engines" because of the diesel engine style glow (not spark) method of igniting the fuel.

Yes dyes can be used to see methanol burn.... but as the methanol burns, it of course burns other components which happily smoke away for all the world to see...

As far as I'm concerned, I'd consider hobby fuel a LOT safer than petrol even with its invisible flame...
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There is no such thing as excessive carnage.

Everyone is probably still paranoid from that footage of that F1 (Indy?) car guy leaping around like a madman with no visible flams.. :Roll:

Another of my observations in life (tm) is that the more unusual a way in which you kill/injure yourself, the more people will take notice....

Have a drunken car crash, or drop dead from cigarette induced cancer and you get "yawn, ho hum another one",

Do something stupid and/or unusual and get hurt doing it, and everyone will immediately be out to ban it..

Stopping a few crazy guys from doing their own thing that noone else is likely to want to do anyway, is a lot easier for law-makers than doing anything about issues that would improve safety for a majority rather than a minority - that would actually be hard work (and probably piss a lot of people off anyway).

Dancing around burning from invisible-flame alcohol fuel is obviously a lot more ban-worthy than delibertately sucking the same stuff down your throat and then fighting and barfing your way home ..
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Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
Everyone is probably still paranoid from that footage of that F1 (Indy?) car guy leaping around like a madman with no visible flames.. :Roll:

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Well Nick, when you are the event organiser, you can run the rules you want. You can run whatever fuel you like at the House of Carnage.

mmmm, Hydrogen powered Chainsaw
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https://www.halfdonethings.com/

well if it's just a case of "event organiser decision" .... I'll certainly allow hobby engines and methanol fuel here at the House of Carnage. I'm still a bit iffy about petrol however.

Any ideas about fuel use at "sidetracked" events in the future Spockie-tech ?
it would be a shame to develop a nasty "combot" only to find it will never be allowed at our version of a national championships in Melbourne.
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There is no such thing as excessive carnage.

Its definitely an "Event Organiser" decision.. if you choose to allow combustible fuels on your premises, its your decision and responsibility..

Keep in mind that while a lot of people worry about bots going boom in the arena and blowing out the polycarb walls, its far more likely that an accident will happen in the pits while people are refilling, draining, repairing, drilling, grinding, soldering, sparking wires, charging batteries and so on..

I've mentioned it to SideTracked on a couple of occasions and been knocked back.. As usual, the problem is the insurance companies. Start tossing petrol about, and a whole new range of complications with fire marshalls, approval from fire deparments, trained staff, x number of fire extinguishers within reach and so on have to be covered..

I'll keep mentioning it every now and then, but I wouldnt count on being able to run ICE bots at Sidetracked any time soon.. perhaps at some of the private events we have planned..
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