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supagenius
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Alexandria
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight:
Just for the record I'm a Christian and am against the bashing of the Hillsong church. I'll reserve other comment there until i've read the script.
Good. Read it and see what you think. That's why I gave it to people.
As far as the script going to Qld or even outside the Maryong robot group, I would prefer that didn't happen at this stage. There are several reasons why. First, I gave the script to the Maryong bot group because they have been very open and generous with their time. I think the least I can do in return is to give them the chance to read what I've written and to comment on it.
Second, Seeds already has a Director. He and I have been working on the script for the last two years. Right now, we're in the process of approaching a Producer. Like everything else, this has certain protocols and procedures. One of the chief ones is that the Producer needs to be assured that they are getting first look at the material. This is essential because:
a) they have to go out and try to raise the money to make the movie. It's a heartbreaking process, because it takes years, involves rejection after rejection, deals falling through at the last minute, etc. etc. And through it all, the Producer carries the weight of the hopes of the Writer, Director etc on his/her back.
b) they have to be as sure as possible that nobody else is going to read the script, rip off the idea, and get a movie out before them.
In short, it takes a huge amount of belief in, and commitment to, the material to keep slogging away for all that time. For that commitment to happen, a Producer has to know the material is exclusively theirs. I know that if I were a Producer, and somebody came to me with a script and said it had been widely circulated, my response would be "Well, if everyone's already read it, why should I bust myself trying to sell it? Go and do it yourself."
That may sound precious or paranoid, but I don't want to take the chance. Writing Seeds has taken too much work and too much time to risk it.
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Wed May 03, 2006 9:34 am |
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supagenius
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Alexandria
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Quote: "What has this church done to deserve attack? Do they give out too many food parcels to the poor? Are they feeding too many homeless people? Are they supporting too many refugees? Do they visit too many people in jail and hospital?"
Okay. Since you asked...
1) The script is NOT a broadside at Hillsong, Chrsitian City or any other Church per se.
2) The script's main argument is that today's society does nothing to value or nurture a person's "inner life." Indeed, it actively undermines it. By "inner life," I mean the unconscious, imagination, dreams, feelings, and all things generally intangible. So, we are bombarded with music videos & lowest common denominator reality TV that do nothing to foster imagination, and ads that guarantee life will be better if we have appliances X, Y & Z etc. Essentially, we are continually told that the measure of success, of happiness, and of our value as human beings is solely determined by how successful we are economically. Yet, every couple of months, there is an article in the paper or on the news which unfailingly shows that society is richer than ever, and people are more unhappy than ever.
3) The two main characters in the movie are two guys who have "slipped through the cracks" of Australia's economic prosperity. They build robots. One of our two guys can't sleep. He goes to therapy which probes his inner life. The therapy uncovers an image in his inner life. He discovers this image represents feelings of self-hate and devaluation as a person.
4) He starts to see thiis image, and several others, in real life.
5) The images lead him to a large evangelical Church. Note it's an evangelical Church, not an Anglican/Catholic/Uniting/whatever. Why Evangelical? Because evangelical Churches, such as Hillsong, Christian City (basically, all the "Assemblies of God" churches) espouse the doctrine of "prosperity gospel." one of the key proponents of prosperity gospel is tithing. The promise is that, in return for tithing, God will shower you with abundance - not just with eternal life in paradise, but in this, our earthly life. Conversely, if you don't tithe, you are cut off from God's abundance. (NOTE: This is NOT my point of view, it is Pastor Phil Pringle's point of view, on page 174 of his book "Keys To Financial Success." Similar sentiments are found in Brian Houston's book "You Need More Money" (subtitled "Discovering God's amazing Financial Plan For Your Life.")
6) This arrangement is essentially our current government's philosophy of mutual obligation. We have a responsibility to tithe, and God will reward us with prosperity. However, the obligation is on us to give first - because "Giving opens the windows of heaven" (Malachi 3:10 - quopted by Pringle & Houston in their books and, also a favourite at the Hillsong services I've attended). But if we don't make the first move and give, the windows of heaven remain closed. So, if we're poor and out of favour with God, it's our fault. I wonder if all the poor, the homeless and the refugees know that? Somebody should tell them.
7) In primitive societies,, the province of the "inner life" fell to Shamans, Wise Men etc. In western industrial society, right or wrong, it falls mainly to the Church. One of the main aspects that Church offered as nourishment of "inner life" was ritual. Sacraments such as communion were designed to be mysterious and magical, and turn one's attention from the mundane to the mysterious. when they worked, people came away from communion utterly transformed, as though the spirit of God had indeed entered them. Over the years there's been a progressive de-mystification of the sacraments to the point where Hillsong offers a tray of crusts and thimbles of juice passed along the aisle. No ritual. No magic. No mystery. No shift in consciousness.
 Hillsong started in 1983 (or maybe 84.) I don't think it's coincidence that this coincides exactly with when Hawke floated the dollar, deregulated the banking sector and basically embarked on an opening up of the Aussie economy to the globe.
9) What does all this mean? Back to point one. The script is not a Hillsong bashing exercise. It's about one character who has missed out on the economic good times, and is surrounded by images and messages telling him he's a failure. His self esteem, hopes and self-worth are being leeched out of him because the economic rationalist society we have embraced does nothing to nourish them. His search to find some kind of worth and meaning in his life leads him to an Evangelical Church. However, the Church emphasises the material, rather than the intangible, as a sign of God's blessing. This philosophy has helped make the Assemblies of God Australia's fastest growing Christian relgious movement, but it doesn't help our main character. He needs something which is NOT material. So, no the Church doesn't come out of it looking too flash. But the Church is contextualised as a product of its time and society, and part of a wider argument. I would also add there are scenes where a character says the Church gives her life purpose and a sense of certainty - so it works for her. It just doesn't work for our main guy.
10) Our main character eventually hits rock bottom. In his darkest hour, he finds the simple thruth that people need each other - and the rather hopeful proposition that perhaps people can reach out to each other and somehow connect precisely because they are at their lowest point. It's this reason why the robot group is so important - there is a small group of people bound together NOT by material success. They are a scrounging, grass roots operation that get by on the smell of an oily rag, and there is great communion and camaraderie between them because of that.
11) I could go on about why I think Hillsong and other prosperity churches should be called to account on any number of grounds, including your questions about their work with the poor, the homeless and refugees. I won't, because it will take the focus off the points I've tried to make above. However, if you want to come back to and debate issues of poor, homeless, refugees and anything else, feel free. I'll be happy to oblige.
12) To answer you original question, Do I think Houston, Pringle et al are "immune to normal human emotion?" Of course not. Do I think that they should be immune from criticism because it might hurt their feelings? No, I don't think that either. And, do I think they care about the sentiments of someone who has written a script which probably has about a 1% chance of getting made? No. I don't. Even if it does get made, and they don't like the result, I'm sure they'll be able to deal with it -after all, success is a wonderful panacea.
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Thu May 04, 2006 11:24 am |
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supagenius
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Alexandria
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew:
Whoa that was a Brett lengh worthy post and very detailed.
Just one thing, in my church (st pauls anglican) and others including Hillsong ive been to its never been the case of give money and thennn God will love u.
Gods love is eternal and free and not purchased through money...
Yeah, it was long, eh?
I can only repeat, the prosperity gospel stuff about God's abundance being given to those who give, and withheld from those who don't is not my invention. It is written in black and white in one of Pastor Phil Pringle's books, viz:
"Malachi reveals that the windows of heaven open over those who bring in the tithe. This means the windows of heaven are closed over people who are not bringing the tithe into the house of God. Everyone nedds to be giving, rather than leaving it to a few to carry the burden. Being a believer means we learn to accept responsibility for the blessing of God resting, not just on our own lives, but also on the lives of those all around us." (from "Keys To Financial Success" pp 174-175, by Pastor Phil Pringle, Pastor at Christian City Church, Oxford Falls, Sydney.)
Brian Houston has also expressed a similar point of view in his books. And I have been to Hillsong many times to research the script, and heard these sentiments expressed when the offering was taken.
I was raised an Anglican. Like you, I grew up believeing in a God whose love was eternal and could not be purchased through money. I don't consider myself a believer now, but if there is a God, and that God's worth believing in, he's exactly as you describe.
Like I said in my original post, I am not out to offend anyone's beliefs. I am not out to incite hatred. I have a point of view. It's that of a forty-five year old man who doesn't like much of the way society is going and how it devalues what is important and what should be nurtured. I decided to try and write something about it, because in a few years, I won't have any kind of cachet left as a screenwriter. I'll be just another jaded, over-the-hill "yesterday's man" wishing for a better world, and babbling about how things were in the old days.
If my point of view gets up anyone's nose, well, it's a big wide world, with room for different persepctives. I hope people can say "I don't agree with you. Now, when's the next bot battle on?" And leave it at that.
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Thu May 04, 2006 1:33 pm |
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RoboWars Australia Forum Index
-> General Chatter
ill take a punt and say they kill each other in the tunnel XD
