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Daniel
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


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Oh, and we all know how Mel felt about the 3-way at RoboWars II. Being hit in the back in a 3-way after a long 2-on-2 compitition would peev anyone off.

Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:54 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 4433
Location: Sydney


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here is the number of people in each pool as i calculate it

code:

21   11   6   3   2   1   1   1
     11   11   9   6   4   2   1




so the person with the highest ranked bye is only garenteed 4th place.

there are no 3 ways in the comp.
formula i used in excell is this
=ROUNDUP(A1/2,0)

put number of bots in A1
put that to the right
under that one put this
=B1

that gives you the number of bots in the loosers round
then to the right of that put
=ROUNDUP(B2/2,0)+(B1-C1)
that gives you the number of bots in this loosers pool + additions from the winners tree
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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posted calculator thing
http://valen.botclips.net/Scheduler/round calculator.xls

when there is a 1 in the winners (top) and a 1 in the loosers (bottom) then you have the final
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:09 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Word from the AV Tech at the Piazza.

The vision mixers can accept VGA+ inputs, *but* it all gets down-converted to composite before being Fed to the Super-Screen, so high-res displays are not going to work.

Apparently the "pitch" on the super-screen is 20mm (whatever that means - size of the pixels ?), so any output from the scheduling software that you want to put up on the big screen has to be in big chunky writing to be clear.

He said if we're going to use the output from a Laptop, the best way to get the signal from the center (Where the arena and pits are) over to the mixing booth is an SVHS ouput from the laptop, which they use a little box to convert into a dual chroma/luminence feed down the long wires.

So, no 10-point Excel spreadsheet style displays sorry jake.. Power-point presentation style is what will look best.
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Daniel
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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Location: Gold Coast


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I still see 3 robots changing into 2 in the winners tree. A bye to get into the money just isn't fair even if it is random.

Also I'm guess 24 at the monet because Cheeze isn't in the Wiki. There is also Prong and Bort's 2 robots and if their not coming I keep picturing 2 victorian robots that havn't been listed but I can't think of who they are.

Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:29 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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the by gets you into 4th place possiblility of 3rd i think?
you are missing that 1st/2nd comes from the loosers round.
so you have the by get you into the 3/4 fight on the winners side.

what about people who get like 3 byes in a row in the other system that dosent seem too fair either?

random Vs Tree aside
what are your thaughts on the batching?
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:34 pm 
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Daniel
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Location: Gold Coast


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Well both Plan B and Stealth got 2 or 3 byes. But are we refering to bye generated by robots pulling out due to damage or byes introduced into the compitition due to lack of numbers? In a standard tree I can remove all the lack of number byes in the first round of the losers tree.

Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:44 pm 
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Waddy the phoenix



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 971
Location: sydney


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ok well im not great at this (im at work and concentration isnt in this post but...) what if you had it that if there is a by and there is uneven numbers on both the winners and loosers tree they fight eachother that gets that ne covered as for people getting more than 1 by why not set it in the program that if they get a by they cant get another or if they get a by they have to fight against a randomly drawn bot that has been eliminated due to double elim that way they stll have to win to continue else they get droped down to the losers tree or elim if they are already there i think that works well and what should it matter if the bot has been taken out already the only time it changes is if you have an uneven start but then you could flip acoin as to what tree tey get placed in ie heads they count as having won tails they count as having lost though i think thats probably a little unfair i will try and think of a solution as i go but thats my ideas on it

i personally think that the random idea is much better

and jake im ot positive what your asking in "batching" if ou meen havig it written in batch format then yeah but batch from the sounds of it wont work well o the big screen other than that i dont know sorry ;S

cheers
wayde
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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I just hurt my brain trying to make sense out of that post Waddy.. Rolling Eyes
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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yeah there is a definate ammount of not goodness there
dude you arent paying per key stroke, you can use all the letters in each word ;-P

Re: Batch
i meant to run them all in one go
IE everybody fights or everybody is repairing/building etc.
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:46 pm 
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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 3842
Location: Queensland near Brisbane


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I would prefer to see a random draw in the first round and follow the tree from that point. I think that this system will give certainty and let the roboteers know when they will be in the ring.

I think that a one hour delay between fights would lead to spectators leaving in droves. The work areas could get rather hectic if everyone was repairing their bots at the same time.
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:32 pm 
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Knightrous
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I dislike the idea of the winner of the losers jumping straight into the grand finals against the winners. In a sense, it's actually easier to win, theoretically.

Can you set it so you run the first round, then have the losers do there whole tree to earn themselves back into the second round of the winners and let them battle it out from there?
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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If you look at a tree, you will see that the losers side have to go through *more* fights to earn their way back into the winners tree than the winners do.

Also, On the losers side, you are taking the chance that you will be eliminated by a single failure, whereas the winners still have a second chance to make up for the fact that they are (in general) fighting tougher bots than the losers side.

Like the new RFL rules, I will NOT be making any major structual changes to the known system this close to a competition. If you want to discuss moving the goalposts around by changing the structure, it should be done well prior to a couple of weeks before a competition.

The round randomisation issue is looking like it offers insufficient benefits for too many potential problems with a large field at this time.

I am open to discussion on this for future events , but this close to an event I do not want the schedulers job to be made harder with uncertainties until they have been well considered, and I have enough on my plate at this time to consider debating the merits of a possible new scheme.
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:29 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1346


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The cheese will be competeing i dont know how to put it in the wiki thing Aaron put the others in for me a while ago but forgot the cheese ..mabee there are a few more people (not on the competition list) because they dont know how to post in there either .

Last edited by Totaly_Recycled on Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:55 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 4433
Location: Sydney


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no arguments here wrt timing etc.
I'll try and make a pretty "patron" facing program. If the paper works now it can keep working.

continuing the discussion for future events.

the only argument against the pool setup is the late round bye

i think an hour between fights then an hour of actual fights is more entertaining than ~15 minutes between for an audience.
especially somewhere where the event has other stuff to do, like sidetracked.

what are the "pros" of the current system?
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:57 pm 
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