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Weapons and Counter-measures
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Location: Vic


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If I can grab Jolt with Skeletor the sparks should be really amazing as the carbide saw comes down on the spinning Ti bar. Very Happy

I have nice fine control of the blade. Trick will be grabbing Jolt low enough so he cant hit anything.Confused

Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:20 am 
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Big AL
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Joined: 16 Oct 2004
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what i meant was bounce of the wedge and off the front and up under the blade(hopefuly) bouncing it under the slower part of the blade and pushing upward slowing the blade down and mayby bending the motor mounts disableing his weapon.

or if all else fails stick a small crusher on the frount and hack at the motor shaft while your there.
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:23 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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LOL you really have to see the motor and gearbox to realise how insanly sturdy they are... Shocked
LOL i was shocked and horrified when i saw jolt for the first time! The mag and gearbox takes up about one third of jolts innerds!
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:38 pm 
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Nick
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OK, you are welcome to try... The motor has a huge amount of torque down close to the hub, so you would be hard pressed to stop it.

The previous version did eventually bend it's motor mounts (after hitting BOB and Roadkill) so I upgraded the mounting points from 4 countersunk bolt sthru 5mm ali to 6 high tensile cap head bolts thru 9.5 mm ali - I figure the Mag motor will die before the mounts in the new version Very Happy .
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:41 pm 
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dyrodium
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YAY i caused selfdamage to jolt! Very Happy
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:30 pm 
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Glen
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i thought what jeff did on catalyst was a really smart move... he used a piece of 10mm steel that was heavier then basically any spinner, so they used to fly away more.. if i had the weight id be stealing that idea lol.

i dare say theres no point attacking jolts gearbox / titanium bar.. its so solid your wasting your time basically. the teeth are where to hit. its amazing how much the bar can flex, sometimes jake and i watch the videos frame by frame and you can really see that bar bend. guess thats the beauty of titanium

now we have orbit and plan f to worry about as well up here... so trying to find a way to get around a drum, verrt spinner and horizontal spinner is going to be interesting..


quote:
Details of Bender Mmm for a start there are 2 of him, one is a bumper bot like Reboot with a disc PlanB style and the other is a motor bike tyre and Totally Offensive undercutter with scooter power on the weapon and electric window motors on the drive.


cool, gunna be more spinners than anything else this event. thank god ive got a few bricks on hand Razz


quote:
YAY i caused selfdamage to jolt!


LOL i think i know who came off worse in that encounter. note to angus, stop using 2mm thick anything!?
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:55 pm 
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dyrodium
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Especialy aluminium Laughing
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:36 pm 
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Nick
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Question: what happens when two undercutters fight? Is the one with the longer 'reach' more likely to win, or is it the first one to get a wheel? What makes an undercutter successful against it's own kind?

Jolt 3 is shaping up well in CAD; I shaved the chassis down to a reasonable weight and I am just looking at the options for the weapon. It will either be a one-piece disk between 8 and 12mm thick, or a stubby bar with massive teeth like Euegene:




The teeth would be about 1Kg each Shocked. Power is looking like 24V from CP3600 Nicads so far, although 33.6V is possible with NiMH. I am using very similar parts to Jolt 2; only the chassis and weapon are different. Now the interesting bit - it might be possible to bring them BOTH down to Robowars. You wouldn't know which Jolt was going to compete until weigh-in time Twisted Evil.
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:22 pm 
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Glen
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one thing that could happen is which ever undercutter is taller might go over the other and tear up its belt drive etc if its exposed at all.

be interesting to see what would happen if both where at the same height.

or for that matter is someone made a spinner the same height as jolts that spins in the opposite direction..
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:39 pm 
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Nick
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Yeah, I was wondering about that; the closest thing recently would be Kilabyte VS T.O. I believe their wepons spin in different directions and at the Nats, TO hit Kilabyte's shell and deformed it. I' thinking that if the weapon tips met, there would be a 200 KMh explosion Very Happy
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:48 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Dont forget that we are not just comparing engineering specs and designs here. Driving Skill and Tactics count too..

Many of the experienced builders have said that a good driver with an averge robot will beat an average driver with a good robot 90% of the time.

Eg. Donald Hutson who despite going 5 seasons in a competition packed with nasty spinners of every description, ICE powered and all, has yet to even lose a wheel on DieSector (that I know of), despite them being fully exposed where all those nasty bars can reach them..

He just plain drives circles around the competition, and when faced with a spinner he cant touch, innovates his way around them.. Who has seen the "Final Destiny vs DieSector" fight from BattleBots ? a hugely powerful superheavyweight bar spinner with hinged titanium skirts on *every* side that was damn near unwedgeable.

Final Destiny left every other opponent it came up against in a smoking pile of rubble, yet prior to the fight Donald said "I'm going to take those skirts off one by one", and with nothing more than a pointy stick attached to diesectors jaws, proceeded to do just that (every single wedge, all 6 or 8 of them) and wasnt even scratched in the process.

So while ultra-powered bots like Jolt are an awesome piece of high power engineering, remember that even giants can be bought down with a properly placed rock and a sling.. Twisted Evil

(p.s. this isnt solely aimed at you Nick.. Wink I'm sure being the Goliath of the competition and the one everyone aims to beat isnt always fun, but its the price of being the bad boy.. Laughing)
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Last edited by Spockie-Tech on Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:15 pm; edited 3 times in total

Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:10 pm 
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Glen
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yeah but we all know that nick cant drive so he needs a big ass weapon to take everyone apart Razz
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Big AL
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whats so wrong with that Very Happy
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Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:53 pm 
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prong
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
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hehe well a spinner like Jolt does have the advantage that it does not need the same driving skills as its opponents as it tends to be slower, its job is to deliver the whirling hunk of steel and titanium. (not saying your not a good driver Nick, except that sumo match with Gulp and speedbump!)

though also any poor driving choices, such as hitting a wall, tend to be a lot worse for a spinner too.

and while somone with a lot of driving skill and an innovative idea can take out a spinner without a scratch I think that its the minority, especially since once mistake involves lots death to your robot

hehe plus facing Jolt doesnt exactly put you in the best frame of mind for cool calm and collected driving!

that said I will be trying to take out Jolt with a new idea and fancy driving next event hehe!

Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:05 pm 
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Daniel
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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Hey Brett, where can we see a video of that Diesector fight you mentioned? Do you have a tape I can borrow at Robowars?


As for beating spinners, I am thinking that most the NSW guys are thinking wrong. They look at the Bob vs Jolt fight and think is was because of the armour on Bob. But if you actually pay attention to the video you will see its more to do with how Bob redirects the energy of the hit.
Because of Bob's extremly short drive foot it seems very easy to tip it backward. When a spinner like Jolt hits Bob it will tip Bob backward, which raises the front. Since Jolts weapon is not only contracting the front of Bob, but is slightly buried into it, when Bob raises it will lift up Jolts weapon and body. When Bob is lifted up the force that Jolt is pushing into Bob is being angled down so it also pushes Bob into the ground and increase its tractive force, so it doesn't recoil away from the hit. Jolt on the other hand is lifted off the ground so the force that Jolt is hitting with no longer goes into Bob, but into pushing Jolt away from Bob and throwing it across the area.
The end result is Bob takes the hit and doesn't move while Jolt flies of across the arena. And Bob doesn't take as much damage as it could because Jolts follow through is wasted.

This is just one way you can beat a spinner. There are plenty more if you sit down and think about it. Its all down to redirecting the energy.
And at the Yankee nationals the only reason a spinner won the Feather Weights was because there were only spinners entered, yet there were 2 lifters in the final of the Combots Cup even though there were plenty of very nasty spinners in the rest of the feild
You just need to think insead of throwing armour at the problem..

Post Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:29 pm 
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