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Yes.. unfortunatly in RC i'm a newbie. Couple of stupid q's
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Should there be a "how to build a bot of destruction for dummies"
yes
66%
 66%  [ 4 ]
no
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
whats a bot?
33%
 33%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 6

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digitalebola



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Warragul


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Yes.. unfortunatly in RC i'm a newbie. Couple of stupid q's

Hi guys!

Attended my first botwars event saturday night at sidetracked! Was great.. Totally put me in gear for forming a team and creating some bots of doom!

Anyways i have some designs drawn up, but just a few basic questions if i may.

Motors, any suggestions? I was thinking cordless drill motors from supercheap auto ($15 ish with chargers)

Batteries, unsure if i will go nicad or sealed lead/acid (depending on weight of chassis)

Control board: I obviously need some form of control board, but this is where it gets confusing.. At the event i heard talk of a relay control board that will do the job for about $70.00AUS (how does it perform? or is it worth getting the $300 one?) and also do i need an ESC also? or just the $300 board?

And as for weaponry, what kinds of motors do you recommend? I was thinking of aquiring a cordless angle grinder motor and hacking it up........

Are there any easier options that i'm overlooking? 12v motors from windscreen wipers/washers in cars or radiator fan motors and such..

I have about a $600 budget at this stage (thats flexable) to make something decent. Also not sure on what kind of armor to use, however i realise this is a personal decision.. i'm thinking 0.5mm thick aluminium, but it depends on the total weight.

And what kind of remote control do i purchase? And where from?

If there is some form of guide that answers all these questions in detail and provides URL's for good sources of parts (without costing the earth) by all means bring them on Smile

I'm basically thinking of creating a spinner as it should theoretically be an easier first bot thats still strong and effective.. and i didnt even see 1 at the last meet Very Happy

Cheers guys and i hope to be doing battle very soon! The quicker the better

Post Mon May 09, 2005 4:56 pm 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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well welcome to this crazy world which we all live

To answer your questions:

For speed controll u can make yoru own switch based on/off style of controll or even modify a drill trigger from say a ux1 12 volt drill and make your own speed controllers without too much fuss.

I did that inmy bot Orbit and with a simple 20 dollar v tail mixer i get IBC style controll with it and it cost me nothing but a servo and some time pretty much.

For a weopon i wouldnt get a cordless angle grinder as there expensive and all.

Go cheap and easy like using a thermo fan motor from a car friction driving or eblt driving (liek plan b's done) for a spinenr maybe.

My first not SCRAP used a PHAT thermo fan motor direct driving a dewalt saw blade and at 24 volts there wasnt much that could slow it down and it was stronger and more powerful than any cordless tool or whatever ive seen to date and cost me not much to make.

If u have any questions feel free to ask or even add me to msn if u want and i can help u there. im form NSW but ive bene in the game for a long time and know a bit which could help.
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 5:06 pm 
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dyrodium
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6475
Location: Sydney


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There isn't many spinners mainly because they're very hard to do well. Aluminium amour would work where you are in those comps, but i wouldn't try it down here! In NSW, there is 3 VERY powerfull spinners now...
Jolt with a several horse power weapon motor:
http://robowars.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=751
Plan B
http://robowars.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=745
Orbit
http://robowars.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=742

These are some powerfull spinners. If you can afford the IBC or simmiler, get it. However i couldn't, so i used servo's to turn on microswitches. Smile
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 5:33 pm 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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bah even if i could get the IBC now i wouldnt as these work well and cheap as hell plus if something breaks i can replace/fix it myself (hopefully).
Something like 3-5mm armour would be alright i guess, personally i have 3mm armour and would get torn to shreds but if i face jolt or plan b i have two forms of spinner defence against them in the rubber from a car tyre (stands up amazingly well top spinners as treads demonstrated) and a 10m,m thick steel plate to bash into their spinners maybe breaking, stoping or preventing the ali getting messed up. ALso the wedge as wedges rule Razz.

Depends on design overall really though a if u r a ali box and u face Jolt u may get some nice damage but if u r the ali box with a wedge or say a bash bar to pretect yourselves you would do far better.
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 5:38 pm 
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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 3829
Location: Queensland near Brisbane


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Re: Yes.. unfortunatly in RC i'm a newbie. Couple of stupid

quote:
Originally posted by digitalebola:
Motors, any suggestions? I was thinking cordless drill motors from supercheap auto ($15 ish with chargers)

Batteries, unsure if i will go nicad or sealed lead/acid (depending on weight of chassis)


Cordless drills are a good choice. They come with batteries and chargers that will get you started.
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 5:46 pm 
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the moth
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 130
Location: Melbourne


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A lot of Vic bots are using the cheap Bunnings kk2 battery drill motors with great success , there is a good faq someware on this site to mod them . They are cheap and reliable if you treat them reasonable and mount them properly . Remember that overvolting can reduce the life of all of your parts . Many people argue between sla and Nicad type batteries, both have their advantages and disadvantages . 12v 7ah "doss" sla batteries from "Radio Parts" are very light for their power (1.9kg) , but if you want to overvolt then you probably want somthing like two 2.4 sla'a at 1kg each . For nicads - you either need lots of (good) nicads or a expensive "quick" charger to have enough battery for the Vic comp as we run to a tight shedule and if you win some rounds you will find it hard to keep your batteries charged . Mechanical controllers often have problems with the failsafe rules - so check first before you commit . IBC's are sold basicaly at cost but still are over $300.oo . We are finishing the PRC with is a very cheap 3 channel relay controller that has electonic failsafe and is worth about $30.oo . Many people argue about proportional speed control , personally I dont think its particually important unless you have a weapon that you need to exercise very fine control with , of course that assumes that the other robot is going to stay still for you to use your proportional control . My robot runs the (exp) PRC and I doubt anyone could tell it from the other control systems . "Vincent" was driven by a inexperianced driver and he still managed to mix it with the best without too much trouble .
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 5:48 pm 
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digitalebola



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Warragul


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If you could find any faq'd to get me started it would be great! Its a bit overpowering/scary not knowing what to buy, what not to touch.. and then if i can even do it!

The more info / FAQ's and guides the better!

I really dont know what design to make.. just something relativly easy and effective as a first effort.. and if i were to go a spinner, what kind of motor do i use for the main drive?? Ive seen some that are huge and no idea where they came from..

13.6kg is the weight in vic isnt it?

Post Mon May 09, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Glen
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9474
Location: Where you least expect


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just a quick tid bit of advice here, go with the scooter motors. there alot more robust if you get the belt tension all good i hear and they run for ages off a single drill nicad pack.

drills are fairly easy to use, but youll pay big time in busted ones in the long run if my experiences are anything to go by.

controllers wise, if your confident you can be responsible around $350 of electronics go for an IBC/Victors/Rs-80. be warned ive heard of people blowing them up as soon as theyve gotten them. but yes most definitely are they worth it, i used to use servo switching until i just got fed up with their fiddlyness and havent looked back.

armour, OUCH DAMN 0.5mm is woefully thin, i would say a slow wedge could rip gashes into it, 5mm aluminium and up for real survivabilty. dont forget fibreglass etc as an option either..

remote control? 75mhz american system no doubt about it in conjunction with a deans antenna. www.towerhobbies.com OR www.robotcombat.com and on the market place. 9ch PCM highly reccommended.


quote:

If there is some form of guide that answers all these questions in detail and provides URL's for good sources of parts (without costing the earth) by all means bring them on Smile


ive found online robot combat how tos largely useless in regards to designs etc. thats the beauty of the sport. no design is perfect or correct in everyway.


quote:
I'm basically thinking of creating a spinner as it should theoretically be an easier first bot thats still strong and effective.. and i didnt even see 1 at the last meet Very Happy


lol doubt that, take a peek at some photos of jolt, plan b etc and take a look at their running system. expensive, precision and chunky. if youve got yourself access to a lathe, welder or the money for CNC have a crack.

saws bolted right onto a car fan motor are a good start. not particularly effective but a good starting point.

batteries i would steer away from SLAs if you can, ganged up drill nicad packs are probably the option for the builder on a budget. SLAs like drills will leaving you paying more in the long run after you have to replace the dead ones.

IMHO the advantages of a rugged no sh*t brick bot are huge, particularly for the beginner such as yourself or someone who is still pretty bad with tools and accuracy like me lol. its always entertaining to watch people tear their robots apart getting it ready and just sitting back and watching with the reliable one
Smile

spinners.... well if you want the serious opinion MINI MAG, 3hp or so and 1.5kg, BIG TIME power but $300 US. get those from the robot marketplace. on the budget the magna TR thermo fan motors belt out very respectable power for a $10 motor. plan b gets the 1.5kg disk or so to 3000-4000rpm in 3 seconds hurt speed 5 seconds full now.

the best advice i can give though looking back on my experiences is A) listen to the experienced and B) get in there and try
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 6:29 pm 
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Knightrous
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8483
Location: NSW


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My advise is to start simple. Build a box with some wheels, it's may be boring, but it's a start. That will teach you some skills in construction, electronics, radio and then you can look at getting to a weapon.

Some people like Glen from Team Aurora started out with a simple box, and evolved a little bit each event, now his box with a stick is one of the highest ranking robots in Australia!
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 6:33 pm 
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Timothy Forde
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Location: Vic ,Belgrave South


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Your right we do need a how to build area.. might work on that soon

You don't know what to make Very Happy same here there's just too many ways to make a robot and i'm just thinking a rammer lol

Best way to learn though is simply to come up and arsk and have a look how everyone else has done it as they have a look of good ideas worth takeing lol

How much metal work have you done before by the way(if any lol)

Oh yea I hope you mean 5mm alli not .5mm
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 6:52 pm 
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1585
Location: Vic


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http://www.robowars.org/guides/guides-drill-hacking.html

http://www.robowars.org/guides/guides-getting-started.html

Gday these are links to the main Robowars page.
I suggest you spend a wile checking out the opposition in the feather class here and overseas.
Building technics are highly individual. Depends on heaps of things, your skills, access to equipment and materials, the style you like eg organic shapes or boxes, your weapon strategy etc.

I normally advise new builders to work out a strategy that suits them first, then design it then build it. Smile

Post Mon May 09, 2005 7:20 pm 
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digitalebola



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Warragul


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The help is really good! Im surprised, most wierd hobbies when people ask for help they get flamed or "www.fuckinggoogleit.com" and similar. I'm really impressed. I suppose we all benefit with more competition to demolish!

Sorry for the typo, i did mean 5mm! not 0.5mm i meant 0.5CM!

I can even go stainless steel or titanium if i can source the materials.. or galvanised steel..i have a mate who is a very experienced welder, so he's good! Smile I just have to design one and i will assist in construction of the chassis, but all the electronics and everything else are my domain.. The first design to make is soooo hard to pick, way too many to choose from.. there are a few i wont even look at because they just look pathetic! but some are a very hard choice in choosing..

I quite like annihilator's design with the roller (saw one make short work of a drum at last botwars) but ive also seen extremly impressive movies of spinners such as mobeious spinner, and the backlash off http://robotcombat.com/therobots.html

at this stage i think i am going to go with a design like annihilator, except obviously different.. but the same style of primary weapon.

As ive said in the previous posts tho, i still am unsure as to motors/gearing etc.. and the roller... not sure how the others are designed but mine will be belt/chain driven from a motor within the inside of the bot.. BUT what are the rollers made from?? I was going to get some thick steel tube thats hollow in the middle and like 1cm thick, then rig something up like that..

I do want SERIOUS speed and torque in the roller... Also as per the message about the scooter motors, where do i source them? I dont want to buy 2 electric scooters at $150+ each just for the motors..........

Again thanks for the help so far guys! feel free to MSN me if you wanna chat about bots of death! Very Happy

Post Mon May 09, 2005 8:17 pm 
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Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1585
Location: Vic


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http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/motors.html

Reboot was running 100w scooter drive on sat night Very Happy we like them

Post Mon May 09, 2005 8:26 pm 
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digitalebola



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Warragul


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did reboot have a 100watt scooter drive motor on the roller!? i wonder what weight it is... and also, just to confirm the max weight is 13.6kg?

Post Mon May 09, 2005 8:28 pm 
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ffej
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 595
Location: Kurrajong, NSW


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The roller = a drum. . . . Reboot is a Drumbot

Yeah, max feather weight is 13.6kg. Im pretty sure the weight of the motors is listed on the Oatley site.
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Post Mon May 09, 2005 8:33 pm 
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