Yeah, why does it seem that directly attaching the motor shaft to the weapon shaft is the ideal choice. Photos i have seen on Hazard shows twin motors turning a single gear on the weapon bearing. Either way whats wrong with offsetting your motor from your bearing? Balance issues can be overcome and you can then put 2 evs in there if you want. The efficiency lost in the transfer method is at the cost of saving your motors. _________________ Bots that do not destroy you, only make you stronger.
Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:01 pm
DumHed Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1219
Location: Sydney
yeah that's what I'm thinking.
Keep the motor tucked safely away, and have a really tough shaft to run the bearings on. _________________ The Engine Whisperer
- fixer of things
Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:02 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
That was my exact first option - I even have all but one of the parts. I got a real shock when the distributor told me the belt I needed was not available in Australia
It left such a bad impression that I am less keen on the belt drive option, even when I know it would work well. The other thing is that the belt drive weighed heaps! Basilisk dropped almost 2 Kg when I took out all the belt drive bits and I used the smallest pulleys I could get. I guesstimate the direct drive approach weighs under 500g, which keeps Basilisk under 12Kg.
If the direct drive runs into problems I can't solve, I will just bolt the bearing blocks back into Basilisk and get a few belts from the US. _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:14 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
They are quite hard to find in Australia and a medium sized one with a 16mm ID is around $65 from RS components. They work like magic and are well worth the cash. _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:07 pm
DumHed Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1219
Location: Sydney
If you need belts and pulleys I recommend finding someone's chucked out photocopier or laser printer. The older the better - and they have some amazing gear in them.
Somewhere I have a box full of gearsets, toothed belt drives, clutches, electric brakes, big roller bearing, and all sorts of stuff that I pulled out of old photocopiers.
Now I just need to find it! _________________ The Engine Whisperer
- fixer of things
Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:18 pm
chrisjon65 Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 754
Location: blaxland
quote:Originally posted by 3Faze:
Containment is the major issue. Over here a feather was orderred by the safety crew to turn it down. (EV warrior geared up 2:1 ).
Doing the sums and working out the kinetic energy of some modern spinners can give some very worrying figures, bots such as Pimp2, Storm Vortex and my omicron are now producing figures in the region of Series 3/4 heavyweights such as Hypnodisc and Mazakari
All for development but safety factors should be more discussed. Theres different opinions on a killswitch but saftey has to be always considered. Hate to imagine someones robot being a 4 foot blade on a latge spinner motor on a skateboard. Pushing things to their limits is what this sport seems to be about so danger is a factor, which makes it also appealling. _________________ Bots that do not destroy you, only make you stronger.
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:19 pm
Glen Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect
well nick as i see it you can do 3 things.
1) just do it - put the mini mag and whyachi gearbox in it.
2) do what aaron and annihilation do. have a little shaft adapter welded onto the bar and have a bearing a little bigger over the motor shaft. the shaft adapter on the bar slips over the motor and into the bearing and presto one indestructible direct drive system
3) get an aluminium pair of pulleys. those ones you have are insanely heavy. i reckon there cast iron.
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:28 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
You've gone spinner mad, Glen
I like all the options and will do them in this order 2, 3, 1. Looking at the problems with Totally Offensive on the Mad Overloard site, I'm doubtfull that I could get the weight down with a Mag motor - would be an interesting challenge though. Just substituting the Mag for the EV in the spreadsheet puts the weight at 12.5 KG. Option 2 is in the CAD stage as the lightest solution or I will get ali pulleys as U suggest - probably have to be custom made.
@ 3Faze: Basilisk's KE is probably down around 700 to 750 Joules. I am trying to get the EV to spin up to 3000 RPM which will give 2,900 Joules _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:25 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
Damn U Glen!
Now I HAVE to put the Mag into Basilisk - I did some more designing and with 18V for the Mag, more plastic parts and a slightly longer chassis, everything fits and gets down to weight. Its going to be the least pushy bot ever, but who cares? _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 pm
andrew
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W
Whats this i hear.
Is nick changin basilisk so it is a mag spinner then is he. If so i am scared stupid of it and if u r substituting the shorty mag for the featherweight then for your lightweight u can get a bigger mag motor which is better. Look at 2EZ and other wonders. _________________ Andrew Welch, Team Unconventional Robotics
Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:34 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
It looks that way Before you all shake your heads and say its too much power, let me reassure you that the KE is not increased much as the Mag doesnt spin so fast on 18V and there is a 2:1 gearbox reduction - I don't expect more than 2000 RPM, tops. Basilisk still has the same vulnerabilities - El Bravo can still flip it and a decent wedge will still give trouble. The main difference will be tons of extra torque so the blade won't stall so much and I can push out of situations like being propped against a wall. _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:23 pm
Glen Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect
shake our heads at the insanse power? nonsense there is still a potential 6v to be used on that mag!
seeing as the thread is already decided on and derailed ill continue here.
just playing around in the CAD for my spinner and all the plans are drawn up. just encompases a 15x15mm box section A-frame on the front with a pair of bearings top and bottom clamped on with these clamping pillow blocks and the disc ill have to get lathed out of steel (expensive *cringe*) and have a little extra shaft welded on the bottom that will get pinned through the main running shaft.
going to get the motor tommorow and should get the pulleys on saturday so its coming together rather fast.
still trying to figure out what to do with the batteries though. the stick pack option is out so at the moment im thinking of buying the NIMHs off jeff cutting them up into 4x 12v packs and running the bot of a single 12v pack. or buying them and using 18v motors and run the thing off 24v.. worse come to worst ill just use a 12v SLA again.
Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:31 pm
Knightrous Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW
Limiting weapons! I agree with Georges comment of "Get Real People".
If your going to limit weapons, why not limit flippers to 50kg of lift, hammer bots to 50kg of force and limit rammers to 5km/h?? All redicule if you as me.
Also looking along this convo about spinners and power, Annihilation runs 1:1 directly from the motor shaft and the biggest problem we had all weekend beside radio problems and the blades jamming was the link coming loose! We are about to do an post mortum on the Annihilation weapon motor and find out if our suspisions are true about it running on half power.
Nick! Go the Mini Mag! You know you want to! The Spin Doctors to pair up again for the next Tag Team Event hey _________________ https://www.halfdonethings.com/
Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
Sarge's original topic has gone 180 degrees
The Spin Doctors will most definitely back and performing major surgery, the sooner the better! I figured that I have nearly enough parts to keep the original basilisk (the 'Lite' version) intact and build a new version as well. I wonder how a lightweight cluster bot would work? _________________ Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion
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