www.robowars.org

RoboWars Australia Forum Index -> General Chatter

Chess Ranking system
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 12, 13, 14  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic
  Author    Thread
Dylon



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Newcastle, NSW


 Reply with quote  

the ranking tables doesnt seem very accurate...
like someone could have 1 win and 0 losses and be top of the table.. hardly classes them as number 1 in australia
_________________
Barton Robotics Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/dyl30

Barton Robotics Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/BartonRobotics

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:54 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

Sorry, I don't understand.
The histrorical Bettle table top robot: Minitread 2-0 (only 4 beetle fights in total)
The historical Feather table top robot: Reboot 45 - 13
The modern Feather table top robot : King Cobra 26 - 6
The historical Lightweight to robot: Weasel 6 - 1

I really don't understand how a 1 - 0 robot can be the best on any of these tables. As a rough estimate a win gives a robot roughly 13 points and a lose will drop a robot by roughly 13 points. A robot with 1-0 finishes with roughly 1213 points. That won't put you at the top of any of the tables.

The scores are calculated with the ELO method. You can read about it here if you want to understand it more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:13 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Andrew W



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Melbourne, Victoria


 Reply with quote  

@Daniel - Shembot is actually DAC and I noticed in the current ranking Zebra appears twice.

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:16 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dylon



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Newcastle, NSW


 Reply with quote  

ah ok thanks for clearing it up... was just wonder anyway, just seemed weird you got like say slave 1 win 1 loss and 1206 points then phillipa 1 win 1 loss but only 1199 points.. shouldnt they both be the same?
_________________
Barton Robotics Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/dyl30

Barton Robotics Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/BartonRobotics

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:24 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

@Andrew - Oh, I was reading the results from the event report and it was called Andrew's Bot and Shembot. Easy for me to get confused. And Zebra is in there twice because I got distracted by the football. I'll fix it when I add the missing nsw competitions.

@Dylon - If a robot wins against King Cobra it'll get more then the roughly 13 points but if it wins against Prancing Queen it'll get less then the roughly 13 points. Thats why its more accurate then simply giving the same amount of points for a win. A robot that can beat the top robots should be ranked higher then a robot that can only beat the crap robots.

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:24 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
shreddy



Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 518
Location: Wantirna, Melbourne


 Reply with quote  

nice system, very smart
_________________
http://au.youtube.com/user/crustydemonsully

The day I stop giving 100%, is the day I stop competing

Post Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:22 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Dylon



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Newcastle, NSW


 Reply with quote  

ah i see.. fair enough, makes more sense now cheers
_________________
Barton Robotics Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/dyl30

Barton Robotics Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/BartonRobotics

Post Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:06 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

My laptop died again, but I have finally updated the tables after 6 months. Still missing some NSW comps from last year.

Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:40 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jaemus
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 2674
Location: NSW


 Reply with quote  

Excellent, thanks Daniel!

Gotta love Slave's brief but apparently effective career Smile

Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:54 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

Beetle table with results from the last 18 months


Beetleweight historical table with results from every fight I have


And an updated 18 month featherweight table corrected to today's date.


The feather historical table is rather large. I should make a new thread and update the tables as Jpegs in the first post. But I'm not sure if people want that much information

Post Tue May 11, 2010 2:53 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jaemus
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 2674
Location: NSW


 Reply with quote  

Yeaaah, Slave moves up to #9 Smile In retirement it somehow improves!

Do it Daniel, i love statistics

Post Sat May 15, 2010 10:27 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
shreddy



Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 518
Location: Wantirna, Melbourne


 Reply with quote  

woo! I'm promoted to the meaning of life Cool
however I still don't understand one thing. it probably has a complicated reson that somehow makes sense however, how come people with no wins are ranked higher than people who have managed to win at least one fight? has it got to do with lowering our score slightly more because we lost to low-ranked bots?
_________________
http://au.youtube.com/user/crustydemonsully

The day I stop giving 100%, is the day I stop competing

Post Sun May 16, 2010 12:42 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Fish_in_a_Barrel



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 673
Location: Perth, Western Australia


 Reply with quote  

The accuracy of a particular placement is given by the number of bots fought. If you only fight 1 bot and lose, you would be at roughly 1187. This is because it is assumed that your bot is otherwise going to win half the time. The more bots fought the more accurate the placing. If the same bot proceeded to fight everyone and lost to everyone, it would be at the bottom. The opposite for winning.

If a bot fights everyone and wins half the time then it would be about 1200 (although I'm thinking it would be slightly lower due to the distribution of scores). This however would be an accurate representation, as opposed to the "benefit of the doubt" average representation from only one fight.
_________________
They say that he crossed the fine line, from insanity to genius.

Post Sun May 16, 2010 2:28 am 
 View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

Ummmmmm, yes
Basically think about it being your chances of beating another robot. You should expect Bender to beat all the other robots, which is why its at the top. But a new robot is an unknown. It might be good or it might be bad, so it starts of with an average score.
Actually I'm too tired to think up a proper explanation
Embarassed

I've been thinking about changing the calculation to take into account the number of fights a robot has been in. If a new robot fights fights an average veteran that as been in 20 fights, for example a new robot draws Black and White for its first ever fight, then you should expect Black and White to be more likely to win. So I want to change the multiplier depending on the defferance between the number of fights that have been fought byt the two robots. Currently the constant it 27, so if Black and White wins it would get 13.5 and the the other robot would lose 13.5. I want to change that so Black and White would get 10 if it wins, but if the new robot wins it would get 17

The current equations are:

New score for Winner = Old score + (K * (1-M))
New score for Loser = Old score - (K * (1-M))

Where K = a constant 27
and M = 1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((Loser score - Winner Score)/400))

An example would be Bender vs Avenger
If Bender won
K = 27
M = 1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((1201.488034 - 1362.621143)/400))
= 0.7166 (eg. Bender has a 71.66% chance of winning that fight)
Bender's new score = 1362.621143 + (27 * (1 - 0.7166)) = 1370.2735
Avenger's new score = 1201.488034 - (27 * (1 - 0.7166)) = 1193.836234

If Avenger won
M = 27
M = 1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((1362.621143 - 1201.488034) / 400))
= 0.2834
Avenger's new score = 1201.488034 + (27 * (1 - 0.2834)) = 1220.8357
Bender's new score = 1362.621143 - (27 * (1 - 0.2834)) = 1343.2729


You'll notice that Avenger gets a lot more points for winning then Bender did. This is because it went against the predicted 72% chance of Avenger winning and so Avenger "deserved" the bigger score.


Now I want to change the K factor depending on the number of fights a robot has been in.
K = 27 - ((number of fight for the winner - number of fights for the loser) / 4)

If i use the above examples
Bender has been in 24 fights
Avenger has been in 4 fights

If Bender won
K = 27 - ((24 - 4) / 4) = 22
M = 1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((1201.488034 - 1362.621143)/400))
= 0.7166
Bender's new score = 1362.621143 + (22 * (1 - 0.7166)) = 1368.8559
Avenger's new score = 1201.488034 - (22 * (1 - 0.7166)) = 1195.2532

If Avenger won
M = 27 - ((4 - 24) / 4) = 32
M = 1 / (1 + 10 ^ ((1362.621143 - 1201.488034) / 400))
= 0.2834
Avenger's new score = 1201.488034 + (32 * (1 - 0.2834)) = 1224.4192
Bender's new score = 1362.621143 - (32 * (1 - 0.2834)) = 1339.6899

This gives Avenger even more points because it was effectivly a Newbie beating Veteran, and so "deserves" a bit more


Ok, maybe that doesn't mean much to people. I should use the Black and White vs Newbie example

Black and White wins
Old System:
Black and Whites old score = 1202.685199
- New Score = 1216.0826
Newbie old score = 1200
- New Score = 1186.6026

New System:
Black and White's old score = 1202.585199
- New Score = 1213.0054
Newbie's old score = 1200
- New Score = 1189.5798

ok, maybe still doesn't mean much. Probably effect historical scores more where a couple of robots have 60+ fights. But it'll give me a chance to rewrite the tables again since it is so slow to work on and bogs the computer down so much.
It'll be interesting moving 75 competitions, 191 robots and 1161 fights across.

Post Mon May 17, 2010 10:05 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bytraper



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 195


 Reply with quote  

...

Not bad at all, I think its quite clever and gives newcomers or the more experienced people with new bots a chance to climb quickly.

Post Mon May 17, 2010 11:41 am 
 View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
  Display posts from previous:      

Forum Jump:
Jump to:  

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 13 of 14

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 12, 13, 14  Next

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 

Last Thread | Next Thread  >
Powered by phpBB: © 2001 phpBB Group
millenniumFalcon Template By Vereor.