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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Sydney


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I'm back! (and have problems...)

Hello! I am back from my holls, ready to begin my bot, however, I have a few questions...

1. what is the best remote I should get (quality and price-wise and I really am only after 3 channels to initialy be used in servo-switching style). I will probably be going to hobby-co for it, unless any of you guys know a better "local" seller.

2. Are big or small wheels better? I know small wheels are concealable, but big wheels will have alot of traction and will "ride up" over most robots, but I'm really fearing Basilisk here. Surprised

3. Is jaycar electronics good? They have some good looking 12v motors with gearboxes which have 50kg per cm of torque (to be used instead of drill motors) and a pretty good range of SLA batteries.

4. Lastly, how do you best control your bot? With lego robotics (which I use to test designs) the remote control is "tank style", with a foward and back button for each motor. If i bought a conventional radio, (for a car) the right side stick would be on the side! How do you overcome this? Do you just learn how to drive like that?

Thanks and happy new year Very Happy .
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:51 pm 
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Glen
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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okay radios -

you will eventually need 3 channels at least so thats good thinking. do you prefer wheel type radios (the ones with the wheels and triggers on them) or the stick type (the ones with the two sticks on the transmitter)? if you prefer the wheel radio, well then i would say get an Airtronics mx-3 radio for $200. but if you want a stick radio, then the futaba skysports 4 is hard to beat at about the same price. you can buy those two types from hobbyco

HOWEVER - i hugely urge you to buy these type of radios - http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAAD7**&P=0
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGAG5**&P=0

why? because they are 72-75mhz which means you can use a special antenna called a deans antenna which is TINY compared to most, and they cost about the same price as a normal radio anyway, so i would suggest you buy from www.towerhobbies.com for that reason.

okay second question.

big wheels are a disadvantage often because your robot will subsequently have to be really tall. riding up over bots isnt really good as they will just push you around that way, so i would say small wheels all the way.

however some types of drive systems like kiddy car motors/gearboxes need a big wheel to go a decent speed because the shaft turns so slow.

another thing to remember is that big wheels can also put alot more force on the gearbox/motor and can lead them to break or blow the motor. drills are a good example.

third question -

jaycar are great for wires and connectors and things. but stay away from those little motors and gearboxes for now. they are way to underpowered in there ratings and at $50 each way to expensive. not to mention the gearboxes look prone to breaking.

the slas are what i use. there better than the super cheap ones BUT i would personally say just buy some drills (for your drive) and use the nicads as the power source as SLAs will only last a few events whereas the nicads will last for yonks. if you want i can resolder all the drill packs together to make a super pack Smile

fourth question -

lol i have the same lego kit and the real way we drive is much different. im assuming your lego thing has 4 buttons, two on either side and one button makes the left go foward, another makes the left go back etc.

well basically in a stick type radio you just use one of the sticks. the stick can move fowards, back, side to side, diagonal etc so basically you move the stick to the left to turn (spin on the spot) and move it right to spin right. and to go fowards you move the stick foward and vice versa for reverse.

in a wheel type radio the wheel turns the robot and the trigger makes it go fowards and reverse.

HOWEVER you will need a device called a mixer to do this that just plugs right into the reciever (if you buy an IBC it will do it all for you.) that allows you to use one stick. there pretty well essential.

i assume your using microswitches and servos to control the bot as well btw?

hope that answers your questions, happy building and if you have any other questions dont be scared to ask Smile
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:10 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Sydney


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Cool, thanks for the advice! I will be using microswitches, but I really can't order from overseas at the moment (my parents don't trust it and THEIR paying for the radio for my Bday present). Also, how much are mixers?
Last, I am just wondering what you use Glen? (batteries, motors, radio etc) Thanks again. Smile
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:23 pm 
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Glen
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well tower hobbies is a respectable sight, most people here have ordened something from them or from www.robotcombat.com and are happy with the service, but i digress.

if you go to hobby co i would probably recommend the mx-3 or skysport 4. depends what type of radio you prefer. wheel or stick.

mixers can be had for $20-25. and if you look on ebay im sure there cheaper.

radio i use the mx-3 with a silvertone 6ch reciever (www.silvertone.com). i use the silvertone because the stock reciever that came with the radio blew up. i think it was the IBC playing silly buggers and blasting 12v down the radio line or something... or a factory fault but anyway thats beside the point.

batteries i use two jaycar 12v 2.3ah SLAs in parrallel. but they just die after about 3 events and i have to chuck them out, so youd be better off buying good nicads (VERY expensive, like $50 a pack if you make them yourself and get a good deal). or even better use the drill nicads that come with the cheap drills (free if you use the drills as the drive!)

motors i use KK2 9.6v drills from super cheap auto, if you ask me the best cheap drill you can buy because if you run them at 12v its a drive setup made in heaven, fantastic pushing power, and ample speed.

btw if you ask jeff j (giant robo) he might be able to help you make some controllers up that are made from the drill triggers that come from the cheap drills (you really can salvage every part of them Very Happy). this means you can have adjustable speed and not just the full power or no power control of micros.

just a thought.
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:36 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Sydney


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Great, 'cause there's a new Super Cheap Auto in Bondi Junction. A variable speed would be mega usefull, if jeff would help me do it. Also, a little off topic, is there another marayong event anytime soon? Very Happy
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:44 pm 
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Glen
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no firm date but i think its like febuary sometime..

but yeah get onto jeff and ask him. im sure he'd help, anything to get more working robots!

if you want some nicad drill batteries i can probably fix you up in that regard, or if you want some 2.3ah SLAs i can give you a few (there not too good mind you.)
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:50 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Sydney


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I'll try the drill batts first, then progress to something beefier. ("at first build it cheap, then if it blows up you won't cry as much").
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:54 pm 
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Glen
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lol thats exactly it
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:07 pm 
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Giant Robo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Marayong NSW


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Hi Angus!
If you are going to Hobbyco, personally, I wouldn`t go past the Skysport 4, for just under $200 you never know when you might want an extra chanel.

I like the XU1 drills from Bunnings, you can use everything from them and I have lots of spare batteries I can pass on to you. Also a set of Nicks motor mounts that are great but I have not used yet. I would be happy to donate.

Glen likes the the drills from Super Cheap, they work very well for him but I havn`t tried them yet. I have only used the drill triggers from the XU1`s for speed controlers but they are probably the same. They are a bit tricky to make and I am not completely happy with them yet so I would suggest micro switches to start with. Chris has never had a problem with his set up and Prong uses them with great success. You want the 10 amp ones from Dick Smith not the 5 amp ones from J car. They are the little black boxes with the silver trigger arm on them.

Bunings red wheels are the easiest ones to start with, they go on easily, you do need to grind the hub down a bit and use a couple of washers.

The Robo Wars home page and also Team Vertex website have great drill drive tutorials. There are also simple mods where you don`t need grub screws.

I am on holidays until the 17th, If you get some parts and would like to arrange a day I`m sure Glen, Andrew, Wayde etc. and myself would be happy to help you assemble a basic drive/ control set up. its so much easier to demonstrate in person.

The actual comp dosn`t start again until late Feb. giving us all plenty of time to get ready for the new year but It is up to anyone to suggest build/ testing, muck around days until then.

Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:26 pm 
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Glen
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i *think* the kk2 drills dont have a proportional trigger. but theres an abundant supply of xu1 triggers around.

im up for a builders day anytime, ive got cobra sitting here who needs the aerial tested out. and im all for helping assembling a robot for you angus.

if you need it ive got a little base with some box section and L bracket riveted onto it so you can stick 2x slas and a pair of drills onto it and use that as your first robot if you get desperate.
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:35 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Great! Thanks! I'll let you know when I have the radio. My bdays on the 10th, so probably around then. Very Happy
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Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:44 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Jeff i came up with an easier way to do the switching with the drill trigers i can draw a diagrme if you like or i might be able to post one down it still involves makeing a servo horn and some other components but the micro switches are mounted oposite the trigger on top of each other at an angle and are switched by a small bit of 2.6 mm welding rod through the servo horn and the triger is returned by a rubber band on top of the servo horn so its a more direct pull and is alighned with the trigger i also made a rounded slide plate on the triger so it gets better movement and is a lot easier to adjust .the whole controler fits inside an xu1 battery case .

Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:44 pm 
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Giant Robo
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Sounds good Andrew. I think I saw a pic of one a while ago but it was a bit fuzzy to see details. Another pic would be great!

And Happy New Year!

Post Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:18 pm 
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Waddy the phoenix



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yeah all happy new year btw a helpfull thing to know with bots dont stay up untill all hours of the morning like me designing weopon systems and things like that do it in the day other wise you end up fealing like i am at the moment in a single word crap lol (i think we are all guilty of exceptionally late nights because of our bots trying to finish that last mod or just to get something sitting right lol Confused )
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Post Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:26 am 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Sydney


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I was up all last night thinking up designs (i'm SO tired) Surprised . But I just can't help it! Smile
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Post Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:16 pm 
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