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Prizes & Prize Money
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Should there be significant prizes/money for winners ?
Yes, Large cash prizes made out of the entry fees
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Yes, Large hardware (IBC, Parts) prizes made from the entry fees
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Yes, Large prizes, but I dont want to pay for them in any way
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
No, Prizes/Money arent important to me, I'd rather keep Event costs low
45%
 45%  [ 9 ]
No, I'd like prizes/money, but lets wait until Sponsors can provide them
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
Other (please post a message explaining)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 20

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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Prizes & Prize Money

This is the place to discuss this controversial subject.

Should major events offer some form of prize (cash or products) in addition to a trophy/symolic reward ?

This is an expensive sport, and as I mentioned in the other thread, having a half-an-eye on the shining goal as you fight your way through the field can in some cases help keep the motivation up as you see your carefully and expensively made bot ammassing a collection of dints, dings and gashes.

The problem is, that prizes cost money (duh), and this needs to come from somewhere. until we start getting sponsors to weigh in (getting closer, but I dont think we're quite there yet) with bits and pieces, then most of the time, the "prize/money" either needs to come out of the EO's pocket, or needs to be recouped by means of entry-fee's from the competitors or similair.

I'd like to offer some sort of significant prize for the next RoboWars event which we'll be working on after sydney, and I'm interested in your opinions and feedback on what sort (hardware, cash, IBC, Vouchers ?), how big ($50 worth, $300 worth (IBC), $500, $1000 ?), and where the money should come from ?

(and dont just say sponsors, because they dont exist yet.. a sponsor has no interest in giving things away unless they think it will make them more back from exposure and advertising, and until we get on TV, in the news or in front of *thousands* of people (not just tens or hundreds) then there is little potential benefit to them). so until the live audience grows (making the arenas more expensive too), or TV coverage does, then the money needs to come from the competitors or the event operator in some way.

Tricky, but I think its worth discussing to get peoples feelings on it..


Last edited by Spockie-Tech on Sun Jun 27, 2004 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:19 pm 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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i think maybe (if possible, u throw in a IBc and Nick throws in a pair of mounts or something.


ALso the money can come from teh entry fee. NOt for the ahnialator as it weill just cover expenses like arena lexan etc.


SOmething for only N.S.W peeps though that i thought bout is taht we each pay a small entry fee each round of eth ahnialator and the winner gets all the money from all feews. or fist gets ??, 2nd?? and third?? so to speak.

WOuld add more interest and give another goal then just kicking ass and winning trophies.
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Post Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm 
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colin



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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Re: Prizes & Prize Money

quote:
Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
how big ($50 worth, $300 worth (IBC), $500, $1000 ?)


Something else to think about...If you had substantial prize money, like $1000 you can probably attract new builders. I think that sort of money would be enough to encourage people to get a robot together. So it wouldn't only serve as prize money, it could also grow the sport.

Right now all the people with bots are doing it for the love of the sport. I don't think anybody has built a bot with the expectation of making or even recieving money for it. So I see it really adding to the spectical, attracting builders and offering motivation for coming to a competition.

Events like the tennis grand slams have prize money to attract the top players, and that kick starts the cycle: cash -->attracts stars --> attract audience --> more cash

Now that I've said all that I have no idea what the original post was.... (i'm re reading it).....

A trophy is a nice momento, I think right now people would be happier to be recognised as a winner.

Post Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:02 pm 
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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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I think that prize money could cause real headaches for competitors on close decisions. I would hate to see anything devide us. The enjoyment is motivation enough for me.

Post Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:50 pm 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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I compete in this sport because I can. I built robot because I want to try out new ideas. The only robot I designed to kill everything is Annihilation, and it always has teething problems Evil or Very Mad Maybe it will be running decent this event Rolling Eyes
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:20 pm 
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Eyce



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Geelong, Victoria


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I'm sorta mixed on this...

On one hand, Prizes, Money, W/e are a good way to attact New builders, but then where would the money come from without raising the Entry Fees?

On the other hand, it would be too much to compete if the fees grow higher, and that would create many a headache around the community...
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:21 pm 
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Glen
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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i do now like the idea of small amounts of prize money. some where in the region of $50 for a small event like at marayong.

after you start having regular monthly competitions parts wear out and need replacing. after a couple of events it really starts to drain the $$$

prize money thats enough to keep you going yet not enough to allow you to buy a few battlepacks, eteks, and triton chargers i think..

Post Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:38 pm 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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well i suggest that at events during marayong series is that we have a 5-10 dolar entry fee and that all goes in a jar and the winner takes home all the money in the jar as well as the trophy. would only cost 5-10 bucks per person and isnt much. plus its some incentive.
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Post Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:28 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Hmm, well it seems that most people are pretty heavily against any sort of significant prizes.. Understandable I guess given that most of the people on this forum are *already* enthusiasts and builders, and dont really need any motivation to build something..

But I agree with Colins comment, that to attract people who arent already builders, the idea of an $500 prize or something could be enough to give quite a few people that extra kick to trying hard to get something together by "race day", rather than realising in the week before that they arent going to make it and throwing in the towel, since theres nothing to be gained except bragging rights amongst a small community.

Compared to what I spent organising the first Robowars, $500 wouldnt be a major blow to the budget, but it could make a *big* difference to a team who has to travel interstate, risk frying expensive electronics, and possibly go home with a box full of scrap parts.

Of course, I'd rather not spend the money, and I dont want the sport to grow *too* fast (I kind of like the pace its progressing at right now), but I'd like to see a serious new builder every month or so, instead of once or twice a year, and if cash prizes are what it takes, so be it. Its really a small amount compared to the time and money I've already put into this obsession.. Wink

I noticed the other day that around 50% of Australia's combat Robots have been either solo built or majorly helped along by just two people. Gary (Rotwang) and Andrew (Vertex). These guys deserve a big hand for doing so much to move the sport along.. no disrespect to all the other builders who have busted ass to build their bot.. and isnt lucky enough to have the facilities and skills these guys have, but we could sure use a few more of them..

I think a bit of reward and recognition wouldnt go astray..

Post Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:36 am 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Andrew and Gary definately need a round of applause. Andrew spends hours on end, not just working on our robot but making parts for other teams, sometimes complete robots. He spent over 12hrs maching each shaft for Lachlan's Basic #2, starting out with some 30mm 4140 steel and machining it down to as low as 9mm in someplaces!

I also remember Gary slaved hrs on end the last few days before RoboWars 2003. I still remember him drifting from one side of the white line to the other on the way to Maccas!
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Post Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:11 am 
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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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Location: Queensland near Brisbane


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quote:
Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
I noticed the other day that around 50% of Australia's combat Robots have been either solo built or majorly helped along by just two people. Gary (Rotwang) and Andrew (Vertex). These guys deserve a big hand for doing so much to move the sport along.. no disrespect to all the other builders who have busted ass to build their bot.. and isnt lucky enough to have the facilities and skills these guys have, but we could sure use a few more of them..

I think a bit of reward and recognition wouldnt go astray..


I think that there may be another prime mover in the robot community. His speedos are in most robots. We are meeting on his forum. He organized a meet in Vic and got a sponsor to build an arena. Brett would have to be counted among the top proponents of our sport in Australia.

Post Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:53 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Embarassed Well, thanks for the compliments Philip, I didnt really mean to turn it into a "congratulations to" message, but the thought is appreciated anyway..

It was more meant to illustrate that a bit of prize money might help get a few more people like that building and once they've tasted the fun, then hopefully they'll stay..

Its interesting to think about where we might be in a few more years time. I've heard some say that they think Robot Fighting was just a fad, but not from where I sit. I think thats just the couch-potato's who assume that anything that isnt on prime-time TV isnt happening anymore..

The RC Car/Plane guys have had a strong healthy sport for 50 years or more, and they never even *made* it onto TV. Nearly every person I talk to who I mention Robot Combat too has heard of it (thanks to the TV exposure), and thinks its cool.. We've gone from <5 Robots to >50 in just over 1 year, and theres is lots of stuff we are working on to do yet !

Everyone who is involved right now I suspect will be seen as one of the "grandfathers" of the sport in Australia in a few more years. Oops, there I go getting all soppy again..

So, the trick is how to grow the sport at a healthy sustainable rate. thus the discussion on incentive (prizes/money) for builders..

Post Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:12 am 
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mytqik



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 127


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I dont know where the most appropriate place to put this post but since we are talking about growing the sport here is my idea.

I know that we are only in the "developmental" stage however in a year or two when we have had 2yrs experiance building these bots, imagine what it would be like for a new builder.

I am proposing a "beginer" class that has restrictions of battery power & or motor power. This is to keep the costs down to be competitive when first building. If the begineer feels that he would like to move up or has enough experiance in the beginer class then he can then build an "open" class robot with unlimited battery / motor power.

Try & keep a level playing feild so to speak for new people to the sport. I would hate to see a new builder disappointed with the sport because his first attempt was turned into scap metal/wood at his first competition by one of the more seasoned competitors.

Classic example would be F1, be like racing a Minardi against a Ferrari.

I know I would hate to try & face one of you guys in two years time with no experiance. I am glad to be called a grandfather at 24 too. Laughing

Just my two cents worth or yuan as they are called in China.

Post Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:40 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Hi mytqik,

we had this idea when we first starting working on getting the sport off the ground in Australia, and initially had the "Rex's Robots" style class. It was modeled on the "Real Robots" magazine series of articles on how to build a very cheap Windscreen Wiper Motor powerered, Coke-Bottle Pneumatics Flipper powered by 12v Sealed Lead Acid batteries only.

We thought, since there was a step-by-step guide published in the magazine, it would be ideal for young people or total newbie's to get their toe in the water without getting it nipped off by someones 10Kj spinner, and going home with a box of scrap never to be seen again.

Not one person expressed interest in it though, so after a while we dropped the idea. At the moment I dont think that most of the builders are so far ahead that a reasonably determined newbie cant catch up, especially seeing as how most builders are happy to share their "secrets" with all, and tell them about the latest motor they have found, or where to get wheels, or how to do whatever. This means a newbie can pretty much benefit from the wisdom and all the mistakes of the veterans almost straight away.

Once more people start going for MagMotors, NiCad Packs, Titanium and so on, raising the cost of being competitive significantly, then there might be more call for such a class. I think what is needed is for someone to put together a "Kit Bot" that contains some suitably modified drill motors, the tricky hardware needed to mount the wheels, some cheap SLA's, a charger, a radio and a speed controller. and perhaps a basic bolt-together or pre-welded chassis. Then you just need to figure out a way to make it affordable to young kids, but still worth the person who has to do all this prep work's time to do it.

One interesting idea is a weekly/monthly "robot class" after hours in a well equipped workshop with a skilled teacher, who can assist and supervise 10-20 kids at once where each of them pays a fee somewhere around what "child minding" would cost. Gives the parents a night off, the kids learn useful skills, and have access to a teacher and machinery necessary to build a bot.

A very basic mechatronics/engineering theory syllabus could be made up, and parents agree that when little johnny passes a syllabus #1 exam, they will cough up the cash for him to buy his motors. when he passes syllabus #2, they buy the wheels, and so on. by the end of the course, Johnny has an education, and a robot and has demonstrated a willingness to put in his own time and effort to learn skills that will impress any parent.

Something like this seems most appropriate to help the beginners get started to me, but it will require someone to go have a chat to the friendly local school metalshop teacher and have him fight the bearaucracy to get it accepted.

Without doing something like that to get a group of bots kick-started into existance at the one time, you will run into the problem that no-one is going to want to play in a class that has just a few opponents in it at first, so its hard to get the ball rolling. If you'd like to propose some suggested rules, and help get a few kids building, we'll try to encourage it down here as well..

Post Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:35 am 
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timmeh
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
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Location: Victoria


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As for the poll maybe not LARGE cash prizes but enough to cover some costs Very Happy

Parts wouldent be good idea cos the winner or winners may not want to build another bot and they may not be able to use the parts anyway for what they would like to build if its a cash prize then the winners can split it if they want.

For me the prize money is not too important id rather most of the money go back into the sport and just have a small cash prize for now till things get going with sponsors and tuff Very Happy
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Post Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:48 pm 
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