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EDT Simulator
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ffej
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EDT Simulator

Hey Everyone

Got bored so decided to muck around with the Enigma Industires Electric Drive Train Simulator. Heres some of the figures on the pushy / thwack bots:

Name:Cobra
Motors: Harbor Freight 9.6V x 2
Batteries: 2.2AH Jaycar SLA x2
Battery Pack Voltage: 13V
Stall Current: 130A
Stall Torque at axle: 21Nm
Stall Pushing Force: 420N
Maximum tractive force: 99N
Maximum Tractive current: 31A
Weight / Mass: 13KG
Effective Weight/Mass:23Kg
Maximum Velocity:12Km/h
Peak Power:350W
Minimum Run Time: 00:02:03

Name:Singularity
Motors: Harbor Freight 12V x 6
Batteries: PN-3600 24V x1
Battery Pack Voltage: 26V
Stall Current: 270A
Stall Torque at axle: 52NM
Stall Pushing Force: 830N
Maximum tractive force: 110N
Maximum Tractive current: 34A
Weight / Mass: 14KG
Effective Weight/Mass:33KG
Maximum Velocity:28Km/h
Peak Power:1600W
Minimum Run Time: 00:05:47

Name:KO
Motors: Harbor Freight 12V x 4
Batteries: 4.2AH Jaycar SLA x 2
Battery Pack Voltage: 25V
Stall Current: 210A
Stall Torque at axle: 42NM
Stall Pushing Force: 830N
Maximum tractive force: 110N
Maximum Tractive current: 27A
Weight / Mass: 14KG
Effective Weight/Mass:33KG
Maximum Velocity:22Km/h
Peak Power:1300W
Minimum Run Time: 00:05:58



And out of interest I decided to see what sort of power Basilisk's bar was really running at last event. Turns out that at 18V using 15 X Sanyo CP3600 cells it only pumps out about 570W at peak. At 21.6V using 17 of the same cells, which is what ive heard it will be running at next event, which comes out to about 700W, still nowhere near the mag's max potential, but 22% increse in power from last event by adding just two cells! All I can say is lucky the next singularity is steel . . .
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Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:16 pm 
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Waddy the phoenix



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lol well aint i glad that tsng will be practicing limbo under bas's bar

hay where can i get that calculator
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Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:19 pm 
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Nick
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Hmm, the Mag gets pretty hot for just 570 watts Confused The good news (for the spectators Smile ) is that I am adding 3 cells, not two, and EDTsim shows the Mag developing 775W. Interestingly, to get the advertised power of 3hp (2250w) from the MAG motor, EDTsim needs three of the 24V battlepacks - not too many bots can be getting the full capability of the motor...

The new blade puts much more of the weight out at the tips. I ran the design thru the KE calculator on the team Cosmos site and the energy more than doubles compared to the old steel bar. With the extra voltage and better weapon, I expect to be hitting other bots with at least double the energy of the last event and hopefully more like three times.

What Jeff didn't calculate is the tip speed; with a 500mm blade length, the blades will be doing about 100KMH
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Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:51 pm 
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Nick
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@ Wayde - I like to think that basilisk raises the bar, but in another sense it lowers it as well this time Laughing How high was TSNG again? I think I can at least get as low as a red Bunnings wheel...
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Post Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:59 pm 
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timmeh
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so if i brought a 4.5hp mag and run it off two 24v cp3600 packs i would get the same power out of it as if i brought a 3hp mag and run it off the same packs?

This is with a wyachie gearbox and aprox 11kg weapon shell
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Post Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:34 pm 
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Nick
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: In the simulator, the S28 gets 1390 watts of peak power while the S15-28 (small) Mag motor only develops 1130 watts with the same two 24v packs.

What should you pick? If you had the weight and space, pick the S28 for a bit more power and a more robust motor that is likely to last longer. If you need to save weight, pick the S18-150 (1.31Kg lighter) and add 2 cells to each battery pack to get about the same power as the bigger motor. The downside is that you are a bit more likely to blow the motor.
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Post Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:03 pm 
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Waddy the phoenix



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hmmm interesting well the good news is that even if you get aslow as the red wheels it still should be all good... i hope
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Post Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:03 pm 
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Glen
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heh unless you drive up the wedges Very Happy

interesting numbers there, it seems as though the maximum amount of force you can really put to the floor is 110n?
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Post Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:07 pm 
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Nick
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@ Glen: The max tractive force is partly governed by the coeffiecient of friction of the wheels. With Jakes soft and hopefully mega grippy wheels, we can hope to get a bit more pushing power.

@ Wayde: Did I not mention the wedges? Smile I recommend lots of driving practise so you can avoid them and attack from behind.
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Post Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:35 pm 
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ffej
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All of my calcs above assume 0.8 for the coefficent of friction.

Also, forgot to mention that they are just simulations. Its likely that things not taken into account (like crap on the arena floor) will change the figures.
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Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:48 am 
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timmeh
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So colsens are suposed to be hard on the gearboxes cos they are mega grippy.

If the sqidgy wheels are mega grippy then wont they be hard on the gearboxes?

And

quote:
Originally posted by Nick:
Long answer: In the simulator, the S28 gets 1390 watts of peak power while the S15-28 (small) Mag motor only develops 1130 watts with the same two 24v packs.



Is it worth the extra 1.31kgs for a slightly more robust motor and the extra 260 watts power?

And how much more robust is the large mag compared to the mini mag?
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Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:06 am 
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colin



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quote:
Originally posted by Team Hell Bent!:
If the sqidgy wheels are mega grippy then wont they be hard on the gearboxes?

good point. if i remember correctly, the red wheels will slip instead of stalling the motors, this made life easier for the ibc and your batteries

Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:01 pm 
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Glen
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i think the super grippy wheels where in reference to the robolympics bot?

but yes if you stick these on the drills and run them up at 24v i wouldnt mind betting they will smoke up in a big way.

the sponginess of the wheels is good for the gearbox in that it wont put big forces on it in a shearing type situation. however i doubt they will save you from massive radial forces which is how the pins snap off.

RE mag motors. the bigger ones are more robust in that they will handle more current and voltage because of there larger thermal mass IE they can dissapate more heat due to their larger size.

i would say to use an s28-300 (or 400 whichever it is) for a real weapon, and use 2x 2400mah packs at least or 3 to be safe.

the 8kg bar on artemis with the minimag never spun up really fast from what i saw, mind you it was freaking fierce Cool
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Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:11 pm 
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timmeh
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hahaha i wonder if the edt simulator came up with these specs?

I found this in the dustin2 user manual Laughing

Our testing has proven that the Dustin II motors can actually make robot builders more popular with the opposite sex. Further, this effect is exponentially increased in proportion to the voltage applied to the motors.


Ill take 4 hahahaha Laughing

Another thin in relation to the mags is if the large mag is only more robust in that it can handle current better .Then wouldent the mini mag be better cos i could use the 1.31kgs spare weight for a 3rd battery pack?
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Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:15 pm 
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Nick
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Its all a balancing act. A smaller mag and more batteries will give you a better power ration, up to the poin where it suddenly melts down. If you don't mind the possibility of replacing the short mag, then go for it.

@ Glen - That huge bar WAs bit much for the short Mag motor, but we were running it off quite dodgy SLA cells. If I hooked it up with two 24V battlepacks things might b better. If I was designing that bot again, I would use two short Mags and 3 or 4 battlepacks Very Happy
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Post Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:41 pm 
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