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speed controller choice for new builder


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Phyrexian Robotics



Joined: 31 Aug 2012
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Location: Athens, Georgia USA


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speed controller choice for new builder

I'm new to 30's (I only have experience with ants/beetles) and I am amassing parts for my first #30 build. I got some EV warrior motors from the recent surplus find in the US, so I will be using two of these for drive (with a 6:1 chain reduction). I put my proposed drive system (2 EVs @ 6:1, driving 6" wheels) into the team tentacle calculator and I got a max current draw of 33A (for hard pushing, or when I have an opponent on top of me). I have a scorpion XXL, but they can only supply 20A continuous per motor. I feel like this would not be enough in a hard pushing match. I just saw the botbitz ESCheap85, and I feel like it would be a better match. Is the 85A rating a continuous or a peak rating? Does it have a BEC, or do I need a receiver battery?

Post Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Glen
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Have to wait for steve to chime in on the rating but yes, the XXL will probably get eaten up running a pair of EVs. It can be a bit shakey running a pair of drills at the best of times Smile
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Post Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:45 pm 
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miles&Jules
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Haven't heard of anyone destroying a botzbits tz85 yet....we have killed probably ten 775/776 motors in Wanda and the tz 's are fine (running 5 -6 cell a123s).
I love them! Laughing
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Post Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:36 pm 
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marto
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Well to be honest I have no way of testing the TZ85as @ 85A which is there "Hobby" continuous rating. I would say ~50A cont is more realistic but to be honest I really don't know.

I know guys running dewalt setups on them and I heard tales of someone with a magmotor from Daniel. And am yet to hear of any failures.

In my mind they are ~= 883s in capacity, except without the shit control. I would rate them at least 2x the capacity of XXL but this is all speculation.

Miles yours may be a little invalid as I think those ones have the temp cutoff if they get really hot, as they were the first beta version I did.

Steve
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Post Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:13 pm 
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miles&Jules
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yeah but the one's in Wanda were the full versions im sure.
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Post Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Daniel
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Maybe a bit hard to see but there are two TZ85s in this picture and a magmotor. Aparently this setup didn't work and when I went to fight in the 150g arena the guys removed one of the TZ85s and the weapon suddenly worked fine. You can also see that they tried putting 2 x 18V worth of batteries in the robot which killed their first 883's and made the TZ85s act funky until I pointed out the batteries should have been in parallel instead of series. Although there was a million other things wrong with their wiring and they got disqualified when the chassis shorted against the key during start up, the TZ85s were fine and they didn't kill them.

Post Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:24 am 
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maddox



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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The XXL's we use can handle 4S LiPo and speed 900's with 4.5-1 gear to 100m wheels just fine. (Hannibalito 3)

We tried 6S with the same configuration, and it started cutting out -current limiter-. (Kashei)

Yes, the Scorpion XXL isn't the most powerfull controller available. But it's small and very dependable. For most featherdrives more than enough if you ask me.

On the other hand, the tz85's sound good.

Unfortunatly, it seems I can't acces the botbitz website on any other page than some antweight parts.

Post Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:42 am 
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marto
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Its only a single page. Have you tried scrolling down.
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Post Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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quote:
Originally posted by marto:
Well to be honest I have no way of testing the TZ85as @ 85A which is there "Hobby" continuous rating. I would say ~50A cont is more realistic but to be honest I really don't know.


Easy Way = Take a couple of sacrificial units and pop your head into an auto electrician shop (a real one that rebuilds alternators and things, not a general purpose auto repair where they just replace them), and ask them to throw your ESC on the alternator load testing machine - (bring suitable wiring and a few units of universal Australian currency (beer) or offer to pay them to make some smoke.).

They have an adjustable current sink (usually a carbon disk pile) that will suck up a few hundred amps (briefly) that will reveal the ESC's *real* amps capabilitity (as opposed to the hobby amps rating as mis-read by the marketing department).

We borrowed Gary Stotts (he has one) during development testing and found the IBC would easily take short bursts (<5 seconds) of around 90-100 amps on one channel, and took one or two *Really* short (<1 second) bursts of 120 amps. On the 3rd ~120amp burst, one of the 1405 Mosfets exploded (well, actually shot out a really cool looking 0.5cm jet of flame)

We also learned about the low-temp (cream coloured and common ) vs high-temp (white colored and rare) TO220 insulator bushes using that method. Smile

If youre still tinkering with ESC's you might even be able to ask your autoelec where to pickup your own Carbon pile current sink, since they're pretty ancient tech these days and being replaced with automated-alternator testing units, so you probably want one of those scruffy-looking auto elecs with a pile of ancient looking gear down the back of the shop, not a swisho new one.


Option 2 = Hit the wrecking yard, and collect a bunch of headlights from something noone wants (Ask at the desk) and mount/wire/switch them on a board so you can throw the load up a bit higher with each set of extra headlights you enable. Then you can have your own current sink, light and room heater all at the same time ! (If you have the space).

*this is only a rough guide, since both methods typically simulate fairly linear loads, and dont apply all the EMF, kickback, commutator hash and so on that real coil wound motors do that result in the death of some of the the toughest esc's

I suppose you could also rig a starter motor with a brake contraption and more realistically load test them that way if you could be bothered.
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:11 am 
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marto
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PROJECTA-BLT200-12V-500AMP-CARBON-PILE-BATTERY-LOAD-TESTER-CAR-BIKE-BOAT-4WD-/280944519469?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416999292d#ht_2209wt_802

Well thats not too expensive. Good call Brett.

I attempted to make my own rig, but I was struggling to reliably generate more than 30A.
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:59 am 
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Valen
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stuff an inductor in your chain somewhere too, motors have a buttload so the PWM in your controller works, without it your going to be doing full current then nothing, nothing through the freewheel path etc.
In the IBC it'll matter less with no current limit but it could be weird going through something else.

Also take a look at just using a bunch of nichrome wire in water ;->
Boiling water uses a heap of power
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:11 pm 
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marto
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I do have a heap of nichrome which is what I was using. But it kept burning out in air. So water could also be a better option. Main issue is adjusting the current.

Steve
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Knightrous
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You could route it through the bypass loop phase converter and relay a chopped sine wave into the central core rectifier and then double it back through a XOR Flip Flop.
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:21 pm 
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marto
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What would you suggest as an inductive load....?

Steve
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Valen
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You don't specifically need an inductive load, but some inductance to smooth out the current shouldn't be too hard to come up with, wrap some wire around a hunk of steel, 20 turns or so will probably look similar to a standard size drive motor.

To vary your current vary the length of nichrome.
For an idea a standard jug does 2000W
So cutting the wire up into segments where 240v / battery voltage = number of segments.

Perhaps make something that looks like a guitar with nichrome for the strings, with a metal "wiper" across multiple strings. By shortening the circuit up you will push more current.

Something similar to that is how they test big UPS's, except they boil off swimming pools.
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Post Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:45 pm 
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