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EO's, No Shows and General Whining :)


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Spockie-Tech
Site Admin


Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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To be Honest, EO'ing is definitely *not* a fun job.. Ask any EO..

But I have also said that it *does* offer a sense of satisfaction and knowledge that you have what it takes to herd a bunch of individualistic difficult ego-driven cats (err i mean) creative roboteers Smile into producing a show that people like to watch. That is something that not many people can be bothered trying, and even less manage to do well, which is why I am full of praise for those few who have actually done it and derisive towards those who just talk about it.

I *am* highly critical of the "committee crew" for exactly the reason philip mentioned. Any Political/Beaureacratic style organisation definitely attracts professional BS artists who talk up a storm but do little, and I reccomend against it because I dont think the small group of Roboteers that exists needs to be burdened with all the dead weight of "an organisation" when that energy could be put into more constructive areas.

Clubs, Associations, and Committees produce paper and hot air.. Individuals and small informal teams are the ones that produce the most efficient real work.

Sorry about derailing your thread steve. Feel free to move or delete any of my ranting. Smile
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Post Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:58 pm 
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Bort
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 696
Location: Sydney, NSW


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quote:
Originally posted by marto:

So bitch now about things I have said or deal with it. Wink



OK Very Happy

quote:
Originally posted by marto:

I am going to keep the "Must show driving" requirement a few weeks before hand. This is primarily due to the rate of attrition of beetles we saw leading up to Serial Space event. If you can't make something that drives two weeks before its not looking good.



Got to say I find that a little restrictive for my building regime. Maybe others can't knock together a competitive bot in a few weeks, but that's how I've always built. I don't really have the time to dedicate to robots that others seem to have. Might come from being married, mortgage, full time job etc. In the lead up for previous Melbourne and Brisbane events I have often taken annual leave to get bots built. As in the 2 weeks before and such.

I totally get the register before, and money up front incentive. People sometimes need to be given a reason to actually commit. But it should be the builder's decision about how they build the bot. That's my two cents. It's your show, just wanted to express a probably minority opinion (as from reading builders reports people mostly constantly build little bits, and not cram build like I do).
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Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:21 pm 
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marto
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 5459
Location: Brisbane, QLD


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Once again noted but may not change. How many beetle drop outs did we see with with 1 week to go for serial space? 3... Out of like 8... Or something

Would probably say that it is a stupid requirement for ants but beetles/feathers inclined to keep it. Your case may be a bit of a special circumstance but it is designed to stop people building their bot from scratch the night before. We all do it.
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Steven Martin
Twisted Constructions
http://www.botbitz.com

Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:37 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
Site Admin


Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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@steve: Maybe you should organise 8 events, wait until people have booked and paid for airfares and accomodation, then randomly cancel 3 of the 8 events the day or week before.

Then competitors might get the message of why EO's get grumpy with last-minute'ers.

@Last Minute builders, whats the big deal with just "pretending" the event is 3 weeks before it actually is, do your "last minute" build, then put the bot on the shelf for 3 weeks and relaxing ?
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Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:30 pm 
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Bort
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 696
Location: Sydney, NSW


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@Steve: Yeah totally understand your standpoint. Just wanted to explain that not everyone builds the same.

@Brett: That's why I agree with the pre-commitment ideas. You don't make it you lose your entry. Why can't people pretend the deadline is earlier? If I knew that answer I wouldn't post it, I'd make millions fixing people in self help books.

You know what you were saying about clubs, well the same arguments could be had for imposing unnecessary rules to builders. In the end it might just make it more difficult.

Take the example of some qld and nsw newest builders. I bet their bots were still getting cobbled together in the last two weeks. Is it worth restricting them out of competition? I'd rather have more people involved than another regular bringing a fourth or fifth bot.

Whats the difference if the bot withdraws a few days before, or doesn't ever come? With pre-committed money you at least get that as funds. As far as on the day organising, your registration and round draw should be able to accomodate it.

The end number of bots is going to be the same, unless you dissuade people from even bothering in the first place.
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Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:10 pm 
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marto
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 5459
Location: Brisbane, QLD


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For this event its not really a big deal. But when you are trying to do a public event it makes your life a lot easier even if you have a good idea 2 weeks out to plan event rather than 24-48hrs before. Even if you get same number of bots you can make decision on schedule, number of round, necessary filler events, ect.

There is also a lot of issues which can be resolved in > 2 weeks but can't be fixed in few days. (Spare parts ect)

More of a tester for future events but we shall see how it goes.
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Steven Martin
Twisted Constructions
http://www.botbitz.com

Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
Site Admin


Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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quote:
Originally posted by Bort:

Take the example of some qld and nsw newest builders. I bet their bots were still getting cobbled together in the last two weeks. Is it worth restricting them out of competition? I'd rather have more people involved than another regular bringing a fourth or fifth bot.



thats OK if its a private event, and the EO hasnt made a commitment to "put on a good show" for the many people involved in such an event (audience, venues owners etc). The more effort you want an EO to put into putting on a big public show, the more the responsibility needs to pass down the chain and the builders need to understand that the EO is *counting on them* to do the right thing and fulfill their end of the bargain. Is it worth excluding people who wont commit from such big events ? *absolutely yes*

quote:
Originally posted by Bort:

You know what you were saying about clubs, well the same arguments could be had for imposing unnecessary rules to builders. In the end it might just make it more difficult.

Whats the difference if the bot withdraws a few days before, or doesn't ever come? With pre-committed money you at least get that as funds. As far as on the day organising, your registration and round draw should be able to accomodate it.



So you're happy to pay an nonrefundable entry fee large enough that allows the EO to reimburse all the venue owners/punters/EO a percentage of their time according to how many cancel out ? (Which by the way, is *law* for concert promoters to do in the event of music act noshows)

I would put the real cost of organising your average smallish public event at somewhere between $2000-$5000 dollars (assuming you already have an arena in place) taking into account promotion, EOs organising time, insurance, venue costs etc. That does *not* include any money to pay judges, announcers, schedulers, tech inspectors, Lighting or DJ hire or any one of the jobs that people want done but EOs struggle to fill with volunteers.

Divide that up amongst 10-20 bots (if you're lucky), and it works out to $100-$500 *per robot*. Are you ready to front-up with that kind of cash and forfeit it for a no-show ?

That also doesnt take into account the damage to the EO's reputation if 1/3 of the bots pull out and leave them with an average show for the audience.

Showing up when you said you would for someone who is busting their ass on your behalf to arrange a nice place for you to play is hardly "Unnecessary Rules".. If you cant see that, theres no point in discussing it further.
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Post Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:56 pm 
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