During the chaos on Sunday, in between fights, Mat and I had a chat about what we could do to grow robot fighting in Australia.
their doesn't seem to be any new builders on the scene for the past few years. are we doing something wrong?
Is their something we should be doing?

This thread is for ideas on how to bring in new builders and hold them.
_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

persistent advertising.. no one knows it even exists in Australia
_________________
Barton Robotics Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/dyl30

Barton Robotics Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/BartonRobotics

A topic discussed extremely heavily amongst myself and another builder and the conclusion has been variable to say the least.
Advertising is probably the biggest way but you need a pleasing and inviting product to show a customer and with the current situation,it ain't inviting.
It would take an individual or group of individuals to dedicate a lot of time and effort to achieve what i think we all would like to see.
15-20 builders every comp with 2 or 3 different classes.
What i think the problem lies is in the way we started the whole thing.
We all saw a massive TV show with bells and whistles and after all that excitment died down then we tried to get regular comps going,instead of the other way around as in most sport type hobbies where i think the massive numbers of backyard compeditors demands a show be created.
So i feel whats tough is we are trying to develop something that in the publics eye has reached it top level and potential.
Somthing that ive said many times also is the absolute uniquness of what we do and it takes special people to do it.
To spend massive hours and in some cases considerable amounts of money to build and create a project you are proud of and potentially have it abliterated in under 2 seconds, that takes a certain type of individual and you ask 100 people if they would do it and 99 would say no way and the other 1 person would more than likely lob up to a battle to check things out ,see scissorhands smash a robot in half in 2 seconds and say "no way" I cant take on that thing im just starting out.
When we all started out there were no scissorhands or benders and we have had the oppurtunity to slowly build up to the levels we are at now to new folks it just overwhelming.
So to me its about the advertising and about setting up a product that the customers are willing to try and ultimately grow into.My thoughts


_________________
Photos - http://community.webshots.com/album/154092733uokpXC
Photos- http://community.webshots.com/album/166819552PDWWqP

being a noob myself, I hope I can offer a little help in relation to how new builders are kept

in regards to being scared off, I think that it is possible for scissorhands to be described as "in a league of it's own" and although I don't think we should have seperate leagues, I am sure it would be easy for the new builders to simply not verse bender and scissorhands for their first few matches, and the builders knowledge of this would give them confidence that their bot will not become shrapnel in a matter of seconds. but when they first view a match which is violent, don't worry, the new generation of builders has been desensitized by video games

A couple of club Bots that the new builders could use would definitely help with getting visitors to become motivated and start building their own.

also, a revamp of the robowars store would immensely help, say when there is a group A123 purchase, the spares could go to the store and be re-sold their for cheaper then if the newbie bought a small amount off ebay him/herself, services like battery pack assembling and welding could also be advertised there, everything would help making a bot easier, I'm finding it quite hard currently. Even some sort of Kit would help, expecially if reliable ESC's get cheaper

IMNO the fact that no one knows robowars actually exists is certainly true, many of my friends know about battlebots and the like, but I don't know anyone who has heard about robowars (aside from you guys of course) Demonstrations in places like Uni's/ Highschools would be beneficial in this case, public knowledge can be considered exponential, where one person tells a couple of people who tell a couple of people etc.

if the sport does grow, the facilities would need to grow with it, so some sort of clubhouse or something would be required. I would be happy to pay a large..ish (round $150) yearly nembership fee, this fee could be waived for a builders first year. I know that a building could not be purchased, but I am sure someone can come up with a better idea then me, I have no knowledge in these matters. if growth is successful, sponsors would be for willing then they are currently, so anything is possible.

any publicity is good publicity, I'm sure there's a way to get it.

my noobish $0.02 (USD not including postage from Hong Kong)
-cheeseboy

This may explain why we saw a massive growth in the first few years, indeed a good two thirds of the builders we have now came on board over five years ago.
The sport has become pro with no little leagues.

I like the idea of club bots. tough wedges, maybe even over weight to guarantee endurance.
_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

why not take advantage of free advertising, get the interest of the news.
i've always wondered about the possibilities of setting up the arena in an alternate location to attract publicity and then you just call up all the news channels and tell them to stir up some interest. a great place to do this would be fed square or something, even though it could be difficult.
and yes i realise all the hard work that would be required to organise such a day(or two) and that moving the arena isn't easy but with a group contribution i rekon it could be possible.
flyers/brochures are also a good thing so spectators actually have something to take home as a reminder and a way to contact the organisation. if someone knows someone or everyone chipped in a little bit then that could be taken care of.
im not saying we should definitely do this but they're just a few ideas im throwing out there
_________________
http://au.youtube.com/user/crustydemonsully

The day I stop giving 100%, is the day I stop competing

That's not a bad idea, to be honest. A lot of the news cycles run out of serious stories by mid week, so having archive footage of an event that happened the weekend previous is often used to fill the space; 'fluff' stories, if you will. Specifically invite the newsies, both local and state print media, and the Free to air media to your next event, and see what happens. By now there is some credibility (Running for 6 years or so) so you are more likely to get someone along if it is a slow news week than if it was a new event.
Having an updated website would be a good idea, though, as they often like to point to that as part of the 30 second news hit.
_________________
Struggling from the ashes of a fallen civilisation
..Phoenix Rising

I have good printing capabilities at school, I could get a hundred of colored brochures and many more B&W ones done, if someone has a design or anything, I can get it printed whenever. I am in NSW though, so maybe someone could take 'em down when they go to robowars and Pass 'em on. I think setting up the arena in a public area is a great Idea, but there would probably fee's and stuff involved, but everyone could pitch in I guess.

if the sport is gonna grow, then Ideas need to turn into reality and some sort of highly public event would have a greatly beneficial effect, there would need to be a lot of bots though, so that matches could be one after another in quick succession, I assume that you guys have some sort of mobile arena in Vic?

We do have a portable arena in Vic, two actually, well, 1 and 3/4.

Fed square is a good idea, but yes it will be a lot of work, and in my experience drawing in an interested crowd to a venue has a better result than curious passers by.

Over the years we have had a good stab at the advertising bit.
Everything from engineering shows and fetes, to radio interviews and write ups in silicone chip.
This has worked to a degree, but we need something big, something people talk about.
We need to get this to the point where people know us, and that is going to take a big something the general public will love, and when we get in the general public, we will get the builders amongst them.



What does the general public like?
What would people travel to see?
_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

The basic principles are simple.

Bots cost money.

Good Bots cost lots of money (or lots of skilled time which is the same thing).

Most people dont have that much money to throw away (get destroyed) regularly unless there are commensurate rewards (lots of fun, fame, bragging rights to peer group, reputation, business etc).

or.. you can try to get someone else to pay for them.

Sponsors will pay money for advertising/exposure *if* the audience is big enough *and* relevant to their business.

So, you either appeal to people with large disposable incomes to spend on private fun (not really most builders)

or you attract a large, regular, relevant crowd to show sponsors that their advertising dollars are well spent.

Thats why I have always maintained that backyard events are a waste of time for sport growth. fun for the builders, yes, but they do nothing to encourage anyone (except a small hardcore group of builders who do it for learning, engineering, fun, or ego/bragging rights) to keep coming back.

Television of course is the holy grail of exposure and sponsorship, but as Chris pointed out, our sport was lucky enough to get TV coverage very early on in its growth, and now that has gone away, a lot of fame/sponsor-driven builders have dropped away.

If that seems sad, then think of all the guys who have spent years building radio controlled planes, cars, trains, painting, go kart racing, sculpture, mountain climbing, parachuting, diving or any one of a million other hobbies that have *never* had TV exposure and see how hard done by we really haven't been. We've been on the cover of major magazines, in TV shows, Newspapers, Exhibitions, Universities etc. Pretty good for a fringe sport IMO.

So, you either appeal to a few people with large disposable incomes to spend on fun (not really most builders), or you work on getting a large audience of sponsor-friendly viewers.

Universities and the like are good to find technically orientated builders at, but I would imagine they're not really a highly desireable market segment to most potential sponsors, since uni students dont tend to have much disposable income either.

What you probably want to find is young 8-15yo kids (who tend to be Robot Wars biggest fans, but dont have the ability or resources) with rich dads (who do ) that will spend big $ on helping their kids "win" over the other kids. You should see how much some rich dads will spend on Go-Karts for their little tackers. Trick is, where do you find such kids & dads ?

I suspect that running a demo event or two as a free "SideShow" at events like big Go Kart meetings and other such places where you find mechanically inclined adrenalin-loving kids&dads with cash to splash would be the best bet.

Of course, the entry of a lot of cashed up kids and dads will just raise the bail and make it harder for those with little cash to compete, so is it really a good idea for the current builders ?

It all seems straight forward enough to me, but I've been pushing the sport for over 7 years now, and I'm tired of playing promoter, I just want to tinker with the machines and electronics for a while (like I originally got into it for), So if anyone else wants to step up and bang the drum for public audience shows, be my guest..

So far only The Kero's have managed it off the top of my head. Props to them.

Thats my 2 bits anyway.
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

I saw my name. But too busy to read why.

My brother and I have ideas about getting our arena out into the public again but I've been working over 12 hours a day and haven't had time to get it done. I asked the club secretary to send me our draft letters that we used last year but they haven't arrived on my desk yet. We have the ideas and the plans to get it done and even the insurance, just don't have the time.

Sorry Brett got to cheerfully disagree with the need for cashed up and or skilled up people.

We are forgetting how we started, with cheap batteries, AM radios and relays.

Easy work to put a drill motor in a pc case. But far too below what we would call a safe efficient combat bot now days.

We have moved forward and left a big gap for people to jump should they have an interest.

I know this because I have been told first hand.
last event I had at my house two fellow tafe students (both in their early twenties and working full time) another engineer from Alcoa at the last Sidetracked event all told me they would love to be a part of this but are a little daunted by what they saw.
All the bots, (well, most) are tough, reliable and well built due to years of practice.

A good example might be young Luke Sullivan (Shreaddy).
Luke is building an awesome bot that when finished I’m sure will kick serious glutious maximus, he already has the skill and equipment to build a good combat robot, thank god he has the patience to build one to withstand a hit from any number of spinners on our circuit.
If not for our high standards, Luke might be fighting a good bot, instead needing to build a great one before his time.
Keep at it Luke, we need you dude.

A diffrent legue may work

I just think we need to take a step back to move forward is all.
_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Umm, Having a little trouble following what you're saying there Danny

Yes, we used to use AM radios, Lead Acid batteries and relays and tin boxes for chassis. and because of that about 50% of the bots would move 3 feet and fall apart, jitter from interference, run flat after 1-2min and no end of other woes. Sure we could return to that point, but why would you want to ?

If you are saying you want to start a junior leage where the builders are limited to those technologies, thats fine, but

1. its not very exciting to watch, and
2. where do you draw the line ?
... when someone gets an ESC instead of relays ?
... when they use Lithium Batts instead of SLA's
... when they buy a Spektrum-type radio ?
...etc
you have to come up with some way of stopping someone from levelling up too far in the "little league" but still claiming to be an amateur "because they still use <x>"

Anyway, if you think you have a workable plan, go ahead, they were just my thoughts on what would help, not statements of immutable fact.

I think you'll need a bit more concrete a plan than to "take a step back to move forward" though
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

Couple of thoughts
It’s far easier and cheaper to build a bot now than it’s ever been.

The old AM stuff cost me more than the spectrum, lithium’s cost less than the SLA’s, Scorpions cost less than IBC’s cheap drills new or used are cheap and plentiful.

Bots like 6x7 mild steel stick welded together survive spinner fights, Vic state series not very destructive anyhow and if there wasn’t a few hard hitting bots in the comp it would be a lot less of a thrill to compete.

I still think the channel 31 or whatever it is TV show would be a good move but it’s hinging on someone doing the editing and someone chasing up sponsors.

I think people with the skills to build a bot and the desire to compete are a rare breed.

Hopefully the rental-sidetracked bots will help, I think a 'we wont you for robot wars' recruitment poster on the arena might help find some of those father and son teams.
_________________
Satisfaction is proportional to effort and results.

I guess the last post did jump around a little.

As far as the beginners league, all of the above could maybe work, SLA's relays ect, and simply the aspiration to be with the elite and experienced would be enough to get people to move up when ready. Similar to moving from 2nds to 1sts in footy, they just want to.

Do I have a workable plan? you know me, of course not, I got five kids, five! who the hell plans for that.

Thats the whole reason I started this thread, to gather thoughts.
_________________
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Last edited by Daniel Marshall on Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total