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Marayong Season 6, Round 4 - August 29th
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Nick
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW


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Time to put on the president's funny hat Smile.

I think a large part of the problem is that we have been hurt by our own success. In the beginning, you could slap some drill motors and a fan motor with a saw together and even if it didn't win, it came home with not much damage and was cheap 'n easy to fix. Nowadays, we have hardened steel, titanium, lithium batteries and brushless motors; the one sure thing is damage that's expensive and harder to repair.

This is slowing everyone down and de-motivating us. Its not going to be as exciting, but we really need to dial back the damage factor. Whether that's by limiting some parameter like weapon weight or battery voltage, or we change the rules to make spinners less attractive is up for debate.

We also need to stay focused on the main weight class and not get distracted with lightweights, MDF bots, etc. They are interesting and should definitely be looked at in the future, but not until there are more featherweights and a reliable turn-out.

We have discussed ways to limit weapon power at great length and there many differing opinions. Rather than pick just one way to limit them, I suggest we pick up to three and bring them in in phases to that builders don't have to retire their bots and rebuild.

What we don't need:

Limiting KE directly; its just too hard to work out and its also difficult to police.

Limiting weapon speed: Its easier to measure, but not always fair.

Other options

Limiting weapon weight: Very easy to measure and it is hard to get extra KE from a light weapon.

Limited battery voltage: Also easy to monitor and in combination with wepon weight, it effectively caps a weapon's KE. This is fairly easy to implement too, we phase it in so that when you need to replace a pack, you just buy/make one under the limit. This is a great way to cut costs as well.

Limited battery capacity: An alternative to the above, its hard to run a destructive weapon from a battery with a low AH rating.

Let's discuss this for a short period then the club committee can make and executive decision. We can also talk about when to bring in any rule changes; I suggest we wait until the start of next year to give builders time to adjust their bots.

Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Dylon



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Newcastle, NSW


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less excitement might back fire...
one of the reasons i like this is the excitement factor of fighting, gets the heart pumping when there is 2 powerful spinners going up against each other..
it would be very dull and boring to see every fight be a wedge vs wedge etc..

its the basic principle in any sport like this whether its motor racing or robots.. when other cars get faster you have to get even faster to beat them..

having as many powerful spinners as we seem to have it should test you more to be able to build a spinner that can also withstand other spinners... some say its taking away the creative robot designs like flippers/axe bots etc but it isn't, you just have to adapt them designs to survive..

like take Scissorhands for example, we have to adapt all our robots to be able to survive several blows from that.. Demon is a good example of this - solid bullet proof steel frame with a powerful weapon, could easily hold up against scissorhands and still has a weapon to cause chaos..

anyways thats my thoughts.. i'd love to keep building and fighting robots and don't want it to die but really need to start getting more members and holding large public events that get the word out... i guarantee barely anyone but whom is apart of this now actually knows there is a robot wars in Australia

its explained pretty poorly, but hopefully you get the jist Confused
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Nick
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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Location: Sydney, NSW


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I agree, its difficult making matches exciting but not too damaging - I am definitely not suggesting we just make nudge-bots! It would be a good idea to have a few more wedges like Cobra for when numbers of spinners are down, but they would need to be at least as exciting as Cobra.

To use your car analogy, many race formulas have rules to limit performance, such as tyre widths or track design. This can make the race more exciting rather than boring as the difference between cars is less and driver skill makes more of a difference.

To use your other example of Scissorhands vs Demon (I don't think we have had that match yet BTW). If we limited the weapon power by reducing voltage, there would still be plenty of sparks and noise, but there would be lees chance of a quick OK and more driving and strategy, so the fight could be at least as exciting and likely to go a full 3 minutes. At the end of the match, at least one and possibly both bots would have less damage to repair.

Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8509
Location: NSW


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Spinners are a double edged sword, they bring excitement and attraction to the sport with their destructive ways, but they are also the biggest bane to the builders. The damage caused has a big toll on ones wallet, and that's what burns a lot of builders out.

Just a wild idea for y'all NSW peoples, what about if the spinner guys had to use a secondary non spinner robot ever 2nd/3rd round? This would give you something cheap to battle with and allow you to attend an event if your regular bot is pretty hammered. An example, Scissorhands and Rapture/Orbit are both out for the next round due to upgrades/repairs, if Andrew and Nick both had a cheap bot they could use they could attend the event, while thinning the spinners out for that event.

Glen has cobra, Chris always has two robots running, Nick has 3-4 half built decent robots, surely he could knock a box up in a weekend, Andrew is always talking about building a lifter or something (But always turns up with a spinner Wink), Dylon still has the wedge misfortune and Anguz has ya mum. Anyway, just an idea for you, sweep it under the carpet if you want.
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:07 pm 
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Location: Vic


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Vic and Qld play it soft at their state events, doesn’t seem to help the numbers.

Even the National events seem down on numbers lately. Sad

Probably get as many different reasons and motives as builders you care to ask as far as those that aren’t as active as they once were. Confused
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:27 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


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Gary is right, everyone has their reasons. For me it is a money issue, prohibiting me competing *head to head* with the spinners at the level they are now, also time... but the uni workshop is pretty well equipt.
It's also a challenge thing, I like to design something to meet a new exciting challenge...
Also, if we're concerned about boring wedge matches, why don't we have a pit yet? It's just 1 tile. Laughing
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:56 pm 
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DumHed
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Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1219
Location: Sydney


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I'll try to drop by if the event is going, but I'll be busy for at least most of the day.

It's been a bit hard to do robot stuff for the last year or so, since not having a proper job.
Now I'm working harder, have heaps less time, and make heaps less money! Ah well, one day it might all work out Smile

Maybe I can do another last minute Battleshed winner Razz
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Bort
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 696
Location: Sydney, NSW


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quote:
Originally posted by Dylon:

really need to start getting more members and holding large public events that get the word out... i guarantee barely anyone but whom is apart of this now actually knows there is a robot wars in Australia




Not sure doing the public events is a great idea anymore. For the other states it hasn't generated many more builders. It probably added enthusiasm for the existing builders though, so its not without benefit. But it is a huge expense of money/time.
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Post Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:57 pm 
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assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


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Sponsorship+Prizes+Advertising+Battleshed= ?
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Post Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:38 am 
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Russell



Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
Location: Sydney


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I know I keep banging on about new members but that should be the top priority and how we keep them.
As all ready said most newbees are scared of by the amount of damage that there see (may not be seam much to us)
There for we should have a softer class of bot. I would suggest the MDF bots as this will have plenty of destruction with little cost or time to fix.
We would need to make this class work so that any newbee could see it in action and get any advice need. So there for we might need to make it compulsory that all members compete in it.So as to have enough numbers
These newbee will progress to heaver bot when comfortable and this way we end up more true robot fights
Summary
1;Create & competition of a softer class (Chris has offed to cut them out)
2;Then a advertise strategy need to be set out to attract new members.(short and long term)

But in the end as the man in the funny hat once said
"Let's discuss this for a short period then the club committee can make and executive decision." And we all must stick to that decision.

Post Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:48 am 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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heya all,

making steady progress on new robot hoping another two weeks latest should see it finished or close to anyways.

Just wondering bout saturday, by sounds of things its bad timing for alot of us and giving it a miss etc etc so wondering if theres still a build day or meeting

if not no problem just wished to know for sure
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Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Thomas AIC



Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 151
Location: Canberra


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HI, I would also Just like confirmation that there's still something on because I am not being let to catch the train there (my dad is a bit protective, and thinks that the black town area is dangerous, especially after the guy at the pick and pay tried to charge us $60 for a window wiper motor, and the guy at the McDonald's forgot his burger!) Rolling Eyes So it'll take some convincing for me to get there, and I'm not sure he'll let me unless there's some actual fighting going on.

In regards to people getting scared away I hope that a constant stream of you-tube videos has prepared me for the damage so I won't run away and never come back! Besides, for some reason my schools workshop sells 6mm thick sheet in both stainless ($$$) and aluminum for some reason... so Not too much will fall of my bot anyway! (that is if I can do a decent weld of course....) Embarassed

Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Russell



Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
Location: Sydney


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what happening on Saturday?

Post Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:37 pm 
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andrew



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 3110
Location: Castle Hill, Sydney. N.S.W


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personally i think a general meet/catch up and if u have bots bring em

if not then bail till battleshed and plan a arena fix day

also russell, for some more wheels like last versions u guys made with the spokes, who do i pester and where can i pick em up

need two for hammerdrill bot as the ones on the ol 18 volt drills i have wont come off

can we please have a yay or nay soon caus tomorrows friday and all so......
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Post Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Jaemus
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Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 2674
Location: NSW


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+1 the request for the confirmation the event is going ahead?

Post Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:12 pm 
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