www.robowars.org

RoboWars Australia Forum Index -> Technical Chat

Flywheel powered flipper
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic
  Author    Thread
assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


 Reply with quote  
Flywheel powered flipper

Has anyone put much thought into such a bot.

I like the idea of have just a single power source for a flipper type bot(Electricity), also the mechanics intrigues me. I would probably try for two counter rotating flywheels as well, if I could Laughing.

I had a bit of search around trying to work out a suitable type of clutch mechanism, and the dog clutch seems to standout.

If anyone has ideas speak up, also sourcing cheap suitable parts.
_________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:18 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Glen
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect


 Reply with quote  

www.whyachi.com

warrior SKF. the only one ive seen work. theres another ton of pictures on www.teammadcow.com in the orleans report. never understood how it properly worked. i believe it was basically just a lever that engaged into a spiral thread which pulled back the flipping arm. or something to that degree
_________________
www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:23 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


 Reply with quote  

Thats how I see that bot working as well(what an awesome bot). I'm looking for an alternative method.
_________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.


Last edited by assassin on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:27 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Glen
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect


 Reply with quote  

at work as well, we have a crimping machine that drives a center punch down on a crimp connector and thats powered by a flywheel. ill open her up and take some pics tommorow Razz
_________________
www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:28 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


 Reply with quote  

If your serious and it wont get you fired, that would be neat. Surprised
_________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:32 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Spockie-Tech
Site Admin


Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


 Reply with quote  

The trick with such systems is the engaging and disengaging of the flipping mechanism with the energy storage system without it breaking. Engaging spinning flywheels is often known as "getting hit by a spinner" in our systems - you have to try and soften the shock, but preserve the energy transfer.

The Whyachi team had to deal with the same issue with "Red Square". A titanium spring powered flipper. They used a winch to pull the spring down, then disengaged the winching gears by pulling them apart.

An article I read somewhere said they had to put a lot of effort into the profile, metallurgy, and hardening process of the winch gear teeth to stop them being ripped off as they disengaged with the power of the spring pushing on them.

As with all high energy machines, its the attention to the fine details that determine survival or failure - the bottom end of a racing engine superficially looks little different to a stock one, but the stock one will fail pretty quick when you put 500hp through it whereas the precision clearances and metallurgy of a race engine holds it together.

Some form of electromagnetic clutch like an automotive airconditioning compressor, or the one Andrew built for his heavyweight Vertex might work.

Or perhaps something like a car-engine camshaft and roller lifter with a rockerarm/lever type arrangement ? a solenoid could hold the lifter above the lobe while the cam/flyer spools up, then when you fire it, a mechanism drops the lifter into engagement while the bump on the lobe is "around the other side" (you would need an electronic sensor to time the engagement moment), then when it comes around, you get the lifting force powered by the flywheels inertia ?

Its an interesting idea. Tricky to pull off though,
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:55 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Knightrous
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW


 Reply with quote  

Andrew came up with this idea about 4-5 years ago for Vertex. That was why the Electro Magnet flywheel was also put into Vertex. The best way we saw it, any mechanical mechanism that involves pins, locks and racket designs are going to mechanically fail. The next best thing was going an electric clutch based on a car air conditioner unit.

I've got some videos of a lego test model we made to test the theory out. I was just a simple 50g lego motor bike wheel spun up with a mecano motor and a rubber band belt drive, activating the flipping arm was just a simple dog gear that 8/10 times jammed when it fired. We had some large success with it though, 50g flywheel powering it at a 1:1 ratio to the flipping arm was capable of flipping around 300grams with a decent amount of air....

Andrew originally suggested the idea when we were brainstorming on how to combat Jeff F's hazard like bar spinner "Nightshade" Razz Damn that was a long time ago..... Embarassed

EDIT: Andrew has a POP of the gear he has been drafting up for an echidna like (Think of Sproings prongs) with a flywheel flipper. But the man has been too busy building this cool Geet generator at the moment, I think he has forgotten about it Razz
_________________
Team Knightrous

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:05 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
kkeerroo
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1459
Location: Brisbane


 Reply with quote  

Or for something totally different have a look at Omega Force 2.0 by Dale Heatherington. Thing to remember this was built for the 12lb class for DragonCon Robot Battles which don't allow spinning weapons so this is a work-around of the rules.
http://www.wa4dsy.net/robot/omegaforce2/index.html

I would definitely recommend a look at his other projects. This guy has done some amazing things.
http://www.wa4dsy.net/botblog/
_________________
Get Some!!!

Secretary of the Queensland Robotics Sports Club inc.

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:16 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Nick
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW


 Reply with quote  

Although Warrior SKF was a very cool design, I think that engaging flywheels is to difficult to be efficient. For something that is truly time tested, check out roman and medieval siege weapons like the onager and ballista. There are a heap of useful web links out there.
_________________
Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

Post Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:58 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


 Reply with quote  

Thx guys Very Happy

What are the pros and cons of an aircon clutch out of a car?

http://www.carairconditioningparts.com/manufacturer/17330/17330.html
_________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.


Last edited by assassin on Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:16 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1589
Location: Vic


 Reply with quote  

A long time ago I started building a flywheel powered hammer bot using an AC clutch.
I think it would work as a flipper but the weight is prohibitive.

I think just putting the weight into a heavier motor and gearing it in a suitable way would give a better result.

That is what I have in mind for the new Ballistic.

If you wont an AC clutch to play with I can probably find a small one and post it to you.
_________________
Satisfaction is proportional to effort and results.

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:44 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


 Reply with quote  

I'm on the hunt for a Auto one DC, and the smallest I think. Thx. Very Happy
_________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:52 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nick
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW


 Reply with quote  

How about the large geared motor approach in Wipeout from Team Plumbcrazy? The winch gearboxes that Aaron uses look like a prime candidate for this type of weapon in a featherweight. Using the motor to tension a spring would be cooler though.

Looking at siege weapons and modern components, it seems the easiest springs to tension would be bars (as in crossbow arms) or torsion springs, which you see on everything from clothes pegs to truck tailgates. The torsion spring looks perfect to power a lifting arm and I'm betting someone has already used it in a bot.

EDIT: If you use this concept, you would absolutely have to call it Mousetrap Laughing. Does anyone know what the rpm of those winch motors is?
_________________
Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion


Last edited by Nick on Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:26 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
Glen
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect


 Reply with quote  

how big are the AC clutches? last time i had a look at PnP they where pretty massive (5-10kg?). what kind of amps do they pull anyway.
_________________
www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:30 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
DumHed
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 1219
Location: Sydney


 Reply with quote  

not very many amps (a few), and the clutch / pulley assembly should be about a kilo.
_________________
The Engine Whisperer - fixer of things

Post Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:04 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger ICQ Number
  Display posts from previous:      

Forum Jump:
Jump to:  

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 4

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 

Last Thread | Next Thread  >
Powered by phpBB: © 2001 phpBB Group
millenniumFalcon Template By Vereor.