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Savager - Team Savage - WA
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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Savager - Team Savage - WA

Hello everyone,

I'm Travis, i'v just recently decided to build my own robot so i thought i would make a build thread to help me glean some infomation of u lot.

Builder : Travis Savage
Driver : As above
Class : FeatherWeight
Chassis/Armour : Most probably Aluminium (if i can work out the welding)
Weapon : 180° Swing Tool Steel Pnuematic Spike
Pneumatics : 100psi, CO2, 40mm bore x 100mm stroke, 12oz tank, Geared up using rack and pinion or similar
Drive : 2 or 4 XU-1 drill motors/gearboxes with red wheels overvolted to 24v (depending on weight)
Speed Controller : Homemade peice of spagetti (thx to mike - pics to ocme Razz)
Remote : JR Max66 ADT 36mhz
Batteries : 2 x 12v 2.4ah NiMH homemade packs


Just to start off (to be different from other newbs) I alrdy have my drive system setup (to a point) with the standard drill motors ect and using Mike's homemade speedcontrollers (temporarily till i build my own).

The next step will be to work out the weapon, iv done my reading and have tracked down some paintball equipment suppliers which ill be checking out tomorrow, iv also located a 5/2 solenoid valve with an 8mm bore ect.

So now for some questions.

I need help with deciding on sizes for stuff, once i get my ram size i can figure out what CO2 tank size to go for, i can get a 12oz or 20oz, 20oz can supply 30lt of gas at 150psi but weighs in at 3.5kg filled, so if i can get away with 12oz at 2.5ish kgs then i will, it all depends on the ram.

So im asking for any advice on ram sizes / forces require to do some kind of damage, anything i can use to compare and stuff.
I know theres alot more involed like the rams travel and how it relates to the weapons speed ect but i just need a start.

Thanks,
Travis


Last edited by Dreakoth on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:53 pm 
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assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


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http://www.teamdavinci.com/understanding_pneumatics.htm
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Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:59 pm 
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Fish_in_a_Barrel



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 673
Location: Perth, Western Australia


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yay, more WA competition Very Happy

Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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Thanks, I have read that and its where iv based alot of my thoughts on, but it doesnt really go into many practicle numbers for lightweight class robots from memory.

To be more specific im looking for a range of 'force' that will be a goal for me to hit, i have no idea what sort of forces will do what to a 13kg steel armored robot, Trying to skip the trial and error method by a little and getting some advice from ppl who have tried it.

To me the variables in designing a pnuematic axe are quite numerous and i need a point to start.

Thanks,
Trav

Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:19 pm 
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Grassy



Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Eastwood, Sydney (near Ryde)


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if N/A is your chosen team name then taken, sorry, but if you mean it literaly then no probs. Also, welcome to the sport, and i hope you have funm
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Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Knightrous
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW


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There's already a team called "N/A"? I thought that was just an excuse for slack people who haven't thought of a team yet Laughing

Welcome Travis, I like the sound of your bot already, it's not a wedge, and it's not a spinner! It might be worth heading for WA for an event soon Cool
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Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:42 pm 
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Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


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Use energy rather then force when thinking about your weapon. My axe had 50J, so you should aim for 100J. Pretty easy with pneumatics. Its about a 40mm bore, 100mm stroke ram at 100psi, which is the setup we had in our pneumatic flipper.

Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:03 pm 
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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Yeah its literal atm, me and mike have to figure out if we're going to make a team together im more interested into getting something i can compete with then a name. Razz

It seems like there isnt much in the pneumatics weapons range in Aust. yet so why not, i dont mind if i get shredded by a spinner as long as its entertaining and hopefully i can fend of a wedge or two. I have an additonal idea up my sleave if i can pull it off aswell

Yeah energy force six of one Razz, i was looking at the 40mm x 100mm ram seems the standard size, i might throw some numbers around with that and see how it fits in.

Also whats some reasonable prices for a 40mm bore 100mm stroke doubleacting pnuematic ram? (like new from a shop)
Also where do i find cheap ones.

Post Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:20 pm 
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Daniel
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


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Buy from a shop? We got one for $15 off ebay.
For example, not sure of the exact size, but it looks good for the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Chicago-Pneumatic-Cylinder-DP-9-6-5_W0QQitemZ260141746591QQihZ016QQcategoryZ67010QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Or this looks fun to play with even if shipping is a bit.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/A-BUNCH-OF-PNEUMATIC-AIR-CYLINDERS_W0QQitemZ250144286177QQihZ015QQcategoryZ50928QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are all american but I bet so are all the new ones in the shop.

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:11 am 
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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The first one has $100us for shipping, the second one the rams look tiny.
Id rather get one local (dont have to wait for posting Razz) in the size im aiming for. I can get one for about $150 so its not too bad, i dont mind spending a bit.

I checked out a local paintball place today, they do both CO2 and HPA, Ill list some stats / prices for other ppls to reference.

The 68CU (cubic inch) HPA tanks were $250ish and weighed in at around 1.5kg they are rated for 5000psi
12oz CO2 tank i can get second hand from them for around $30 rated for over 1000psi and fully charged weigh in at a bit less then 1kg
20oz CO2 ~ $80 new and around 1.5kg

Im currently thinking of two 12oz tanks, one as a buffer tank, 12oz is around .6~.7 litres which will do for as a buffer for a 40mmx100mm cylinder which takes around .25l each cycle. The 12oz tank will give me roughly 27l of co2 @ 100psi which is about 100 actions or 50 cycles which is tons (if my clacs are correct Very Happy )

Im looking at a ram from RS for $146 and a 5/2 solenoid valve with 8mm bore ports for $133 + $21 for a plug / cable assembaly

The regulator is where im stuck at the moment, the local shopdoesnt stoock them he said he'd order one in but i dont know what ti is or if it will work as they run the guns at 850psi or full CO2 pressure and only reg the HPA from 3000 to 850 and wont go down to 100 or so, so ill have to ask him or look over east.

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:06 pm 
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assassin



Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 1105
Location: SunshineCoast


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I know you have stated you don't mind spending a 'bit' of money but It can all add up to a lot once you have completed your bot. In saying that I suggest looking again @ ebay and overseas stores such as http://www.palmer-pursuit.com, local suppliers can be a bit of a ripoff. You tend to have a larger variety and cheaper prices from the USA.

The link above have proven(Combat) regulators, and :

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SYM-1-4-IN-BSP-24V-DC-PNEUMATIC-SOLENOID-VALVE_W0QQitemZ180139968160QQihZ008QQcategoryZ105818QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I bought one of these 5/2 valves myself off ebay, If you would like specs just ask. And I'm willing to sell it cheap too if you wish.

I might be willing to sell a regulator too.

Also that postage from the USA you mentioned ($100) seems way over the top.

You might wish to read to pneumatic rules, as the super high pressures you are mentioning are not allowed I believe. Co2 is sweet thou.

BTW have fun with all of this, I know I have enjoyed learning the ins and outs of pneumatics.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.


Last edited by assassin on Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


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Good regulators are available here. We use a Stabilizer Female. If you can't find what you want there they will probably custom build it for you.
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/index.php/cPath/22?

The also sell every other paint ball gun part you need.

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:57 pm 
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kkeerroo
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1459
Location: Brisbane


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$80 for a tank?!?
$146 for a ram?!!!??!
$136 for a valve!!!!!
You really don't mind spending money do you? Wow! I paid about a third of that and all my gear was new. I suggest you have a closer look on ebay and such places.
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Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:08 pm 
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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Thansk all for the adivce, getting a good deal is usually worth it in the end, i was/am getting excited and want to start destroying things with my bot asap is all Razz.

@ Assassin:

If u get me some specs on ur valve ill have a look at it, the one u posted had 1/4in port i was trying to go for as high as i could for future proof (if 1/4in wasnt enoguh for example so would be good to see what ur valve has or if anyone can tell me that theres no difference with 1/4 or the next size up (note even if my reg only has a 1/8in port i want to run high flow from the buffy to the valve ect which should still improve the flow somewhat). Same for the reg if u want to sell it list some specs and i might grab it. Also i did say that was the rated pressure for the tanks i realise u cant carry anything over 2500psi from memory.

@ kkerroo - Its a very pretty valve and ram Razz (wants his pnuematics yesterday XD), thanks ill keep an eye out, maybe be able to work something out with assassin Very Happy

Post Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Dreakoth



Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 46


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Third time, kept lossing my posts :'(


I got a 32x50mm ram and a 5/2 valve for $20 each from Norgren, stock they had got returned and couldnt relist it, also got some hose and a catalog for free. Very helpful.

I just need to chase up a regulator now, thinking of getting one off a paintball website, can anyone give me some tips or recomend something.

Thanks
Trav.

Post Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:12 pm 
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