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FRA & RFL
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decalkins



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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FRA & RFL

FRA President Andy Kane is in SF for a week, and he and I will hang out - mostly socially, but obviously we'll talk about robots.

If anyone wants anything brought up RFL/FRA wise, lemme know.

Mostly we're conspiring to keep the Australians out of the US and UK (that's a JOKE, people.)

Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am 
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Knightrous
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Bring up the tethered spinners rule the FRA suggested Laughing
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:55 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Australians in general (and me in particular) have a long history of seeing our local sports and hobbies screwed up by attempts to Internationalise them or bring them into line with a world standard or governing body.

Robot Combat is a physical sport that requires the actual presence of machinery and people, and nothing changes the fact that we are 15,000 km away from both of you, and airfares make any significant amount of international travel between us unlikely.

I also have personally seen many clubs and associations stagger and fall under the weight of beauracracy and politics that detract from the enjoyment of the sport or hobby the club is supposed to be about.

My personal opinion is `the government that governs best, governs least`, so the more an association appears to be trying to gather people under a single banner, the more likely I will be to head the other way.

So.. if you want to talk about Australians with each other, see if you can come up with any *good* reasons that we would *benefit* from being associated, affiliated, or anything with an overseas organisation.

We need: Arenas, Event Operators, Builders, Local Media Coverage

Your organisation can provide ? at what cost ?
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Last edited by Spockie-Tech on Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:50 am 
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Just like to restate the obvious that our most important class is Featherweight at 30lb.

If any interaction were to take place it would be desirable if this became an international standard.

One of the reasons we went from 12kg to 30 lb was to be compatible with the US standard.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:34 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Just to clarify my earlier rant. I have no problem adopting standardised weights, or open rule sets provided our local builders are amenable.

But I see no reason to get involved with an organisation unless it offers something useful in return. The way things are now, we are all free to ignore any rules, proceedures or whatever that we think are stupid.

If "memberships" and "affiliations" occur, that freedom is reduced since they usually come with the understanding that you will abide by any regulations and decisions made by the association majority, or risk being ejected from the membership.

And in return for joining this association, you get what ? a voice allowing you to participate in the decision making process that will then be used to enforce the majority rule.

No Thanks.

If association membership offers nothing except a voice in the decision making process when we are already free to ignore decisions that we dont like, then why contribute to increasing that associations power until they hold so much authority that you are *not* free to ignore unwelcome decisions ?

A say in how an organisation is run that holds no authority over us, and offers no benefits to us is no bargain as far as I am concerned. If it can be shown that there are other useful reasons to participate, then I will reconsider.

This of course, is only my opinion. Other Roboteers in Australia are free to hold their own and join what they like, since we *dont* have an association that will get narky if they do.. Smile
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:52 am 
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decalkins



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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So... ummm.... Can someone check Spockie's humor input?

It's seriously broken.

Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:40 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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This is true.

However he has been sh*tted around many times before, bringing up past memories perhaps? Confused
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Rotwang
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Oh he is not joking.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:23 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Yeah, sorry for being a bit ranty. Confused

I'm havent been feeling too well last week or so.. some sort of PITA virusey thing that is making me feel tired, sore and cranky in waves. Goes away for a day or so, I think I'm better, then it comes back again and makes me feel like shit again - I shouldnt have posted until I'd read it back again later..

And yes, as you have probably noticed, I do have a *very* low tolerance for any sort of club/organisation crap. I have seen too many promising groups of enthusiastic people get screwed over by gits who think that power plays are more fun than whatever the hobby is about.

Mention committee's, presidents, AGM's or any of that sort of garbage and I'll whip out my flamethrower and nuke anybody who thinks its a good idea.
Evil or Very Mad

I was talking to a friend about the Gyrocopter scene the other day which I left some years back, and he said he's recently abandoned it as well, thanks to another bunch of non-pilot REMF's who have drowned any chance of just flying and having fun with a bunch of new regulations requiring you to keep a logbook every time you so much as start an engine - which of course has immediately split the pilots into two groups of "thats crap, get stuffed now 'illegal' pilots" and a smaller group of brown-nosing 'legal' pilots who spend more time arguing about regulations than actually flying.

This is not the first time I have seen this sort of thing happen. In my experience, Associations are usually started by someone genuine with the best of intentions, but they eventually either get ousted by politically savvy takeover dickheads who then stuff it all up, or they eventually step down and are replaced by someone lacking the drive of the original person and it all falls apart anyway.

Leave people alone and its surprising what they can get done without organisations to get in the way

Oops, I'm ranting again. I think I'll just shutup until I feel better. Sorry Dave, nothing personal against you.. just "Authorities" in general.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Knightrous
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Seen the same thing happen with a lot of the local footy, soccer and cricket clubs. Everyone starts out playing for a bit of fun, then after a while, they form a club, they start running fund raisers to get some extra things for the club, people start arguing on where and when to spend that cash... Eventually, those people who played for it the fun of it move on to something with less political crap and the clubs fall apart....
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:43 pm 
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Nick
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That would all make sense, Brett, except for all the rules and judging 'guidelines' you have for Robowars. It's not that I object to them, its just that you can't rail against the international bot associations and still have your own set of rules that are largely based on theirs.

@ Dave: the only thing I would say to Andy is that you can't legislate against stupidity. People wil always find new ways to hurt themselves and they need to take personal responsibility for their actions. We need some safey rules, but there is a point where they get in the way without measureably improving things.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Rotwang
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Bit unfair Nick. Brett is an EO putting on an event so he has to do these things. The FRA is a different thing entirely.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Rules and Guidelines are fine. Everyone has to be on the same playing field, so you have to know what the rules of the game are.

Rules do not require associations though, they just need the consent and cooperation of the players.

I used the RFL rules because 1. they said anyone could and 2. they displayed a hands-off approach to trying to tell everyone how to run their event and focussed on simple, sensible, minimal tech and safety rules.

My beliefs are simple. ANY significant gathering of power or authority in a centralised location is a bad thing, as it makes people fight over who gets to sit in the power seat and encourages stupid political manuevering.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Philip
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Re: FRA & RFL

I understand that no one wants an organisation to tell us what to do. The above statement looks more like we are being asked what they can do for us.

quote:
Originally posted by decalkins:
If anyone wants anything brought up RFL/FRA wise, lemme know.

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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Nick
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That's right. Dave didn't have to mention the meeting to us at all, yet he asked for our input and we gave him a rant; it doesn't reflect well. I'm all for fewer rules and more common sense, but that can be conveyed more persuasively with a logical argument than a rant. Dave will be less likely to share stuff with us now.
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Post Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:44 pm 
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