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Micro Magnum, Team Magnum, NSW
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Glen
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9464
Location: Where you least expect


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Looking so good for a first robot Smile One motor is all you need - two is crazy overkill!

What flight are you on? We are leaving about 3pm tommorow on virgin Smile
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http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Post Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:15 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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To Nick:
I'll definitely bring as much as I can and try to put on a good show.

To Glen:
Thanks. I'm on a different flight. See you at the event.

Post Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:29 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Robowars 2017 Day one:

1.Vs Reboot 2

My first ever match!

The first one or two hits were successful, however after that the small pulley got hammered into the weapon motor, jamming it and burning the ESC. The rest of the match was dominated by Reboot 2. I tried to use Contraption IIC as a wedge, however a few things prevented that from happening. First, the wheels are so soft that they foul up really quickly, losing some traction. (Should be changing to the black (harder) wheels in future versions.) Also, I adjusted the mixing program so that this thing turns hard to offset the gyro effect, so when the weapon got jammed the bot was turning too quickly for me to drive effectively.

Reboot, on the other hand, did a good job of keeping control of the match and attacking the sides of Contraption. Great work.

2.Vs The Toad

After the first fight, I had to fix the weapon. I thought the weapon bearing was shatta-ed but Nick pointed out that it was the weapon motor getting stuck. That helped me greatly and I was able to fix the problem temporarily by getting loctite into the pulley.

The fight certainly got the crowd excited. The first few time we managed to hit each other's weapon and due to both weapons spinning up at a good speed, nothing too dramatic happened. But then there's that one hit that I didn't quite understand and the Toad was on its head. I am suspecting that I hit one of the Toad's front panels, not its weapon.

Side note: the Toad's weapon design is ingenious! The slot looked stylish and it doubles as a carry handle.

I think the Toad could have had a much bigger chance of winning with a wedge that keeps its front to the ground.

3.Vs Berserker

Before this fight I noticed that the left side drivetrain was having problems: the wheel can't spin very smoothly, but I didn't have time to repair so I actually went into the fight when I can't even drive straight. I also learned that Berserker has modular weapons which are awesome but to me just before the match, they really got me stressed.

Berserker finally went with the wedge attachment. At the beginning of the match Berserker had its backside against me when I rushed in. The weapon was able to connect and did serious damage. I then kept pressure on Berserker, hitting its wheels a few times. Later, Berserker got stuck on one of its huge wheels and was knocked out.

After the fight the driver of Berserker (sorry forgot his name.) was kind enough to show me the damage done, and the gap on the armor was sort of crazy. The first hit was extremely close to the battery, but fortunately by the margin of millimeters we didn't have a lipo accident.

Post Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:12 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Damage sustained (Day 1):

One of the weapon discs had one small bit chipped away.
Minor damage to the wedge/front armor.
Wheels seriously worn out.
One weapon ESC burnt, left with only one.
One drive motor got shaft bent (probably). Can't turn freely. Replaced. No spares left.
The outer casing (thin plastic with battery info on it) had a few cracks, but the charger said the cells are fine.

Post Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:28 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Robowars 2017 Day Two:

Vs Insanity

I just replaced the drive motor before this match, and the drivetrain seems up and running again... (To be fair, the broken motor actually drove just fine, but I didn't want to risk it.)

The first now or two hits into the fight was pretty good, however things went downhill from there. The weapon ESC stopped working and the weapon was spinning down. Unable to outdrive Insanity, I lost a whole lot of points on control as well as damage. It was in the middle of the fight when I realized that I had the weapon throttle on full the entire time. I then turned down the throttle and tried restarting the radio (that was the point where the commentator said I stopped momentarily), but even after restarting the weapon still didn't work. It was not until after the fight that the weapon spun up again. This is very weird because although I did have the radio on, the throttle was at zero. I turned the radio off to trigger failsafe as I saw smoke coming out. That was a well deserved win for Insanity.

When I pulled the bot apart in the pit, I saw a, of course, burnt up ESC. The rest of the bot seemed just fine but the weapon was certainly concerning. It just doesn't want to start after an impact.

And a large part of it was me driving poorly. I should have the throttle down whenever I reach enough RPM. I'm looking forward to modifying the radio so that the throttle automatically goes down when I let go. I'm just too used to throttles in video games.

Post Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 am 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Contraption IIC mod1 projected changes:

1.Brushless drive with Simon K
This change is primarily focused on saving space instead of being more powerful than the current 775s. With this change I can easily fit the drive ESCs into the main compartment, so that I can fit two weapon ESCs in the compartments on both sides of the weapon and thus two weapon motors. The saved weight can also be used to upgrade the weapon. I will also design a polycarb case protecting the outrunners. My current idea is to attach four interlocking plates to the motor mounting plate on the P60s using the spare mounting holes.

2.Better (less stupid) weapon motor mounts
The first version's biggest flaw was that the motor mounting holes are a bit too small, preventing me from installing the motors from the outside without disassembling half of the bot.

There are two choices: The first one is to keep the general shape of the current design, while giving space for the three protruding screws on the weapon motors. This will still use two set screws to hold one motor in place, which might not be enough because the motor can move freely left or right and the only thing to prevent that is friction provided by the set screws.

The other choice is to use a worm drive clamp and a set screw to secure the motor. This method seems more secure to me, and it might save me some weight. The only problem I have is that due to the fact that I can't clamp the end of the motor, and I have to clamp the portion above the top cover. This mean that I need a way to connect the clamp securely to the top cover.

Which one should I choose?

Also, more proposed changes will come later today. Please feel free to comment below, suggestions are always great. (especially true when the bot is having like half of the design features coming from this awesome forum alone.)

Post Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:49 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Contraption IIC mod1 changes (cont.)

3.Harder wheels
In the recent event I found out the hard way that the Banebot blue wheels are not nearly hard enough, so I will be switching to the harder black wheels. (or maybe even Colsons if they come in the same size as the current ones.)

4.Revised weapon design
The current weapon has a maximum bite of 1cm, which might not be enough as proven by the scratches on the outside of the circular part of the discs.

5.Bigger Weapon ESCs
I really need some big ESCs to handle the shocks associated with the weapon impacting another robot. The red brick 200A seems good and cheap.

6.Electronics mounting
A look into Poorly Designed reminded me of such a thing called Velcro tape (facepalm). I think those tapes offer both retention and cushioning, which can come in handy. Far better than my 1mm silicone + duct tape solution.

7.New armor/weapon material
If I knew that the weapon and armor were wire cut, I would have chosen to go with something like hardox or bisalloy. Those wearplates are just tougher while being the same hardness. (the current armor plates are 65Mn at 50-54 HRC if the heat treating plant didn't screw it up, and the parts held up surprisingly well.)

Post Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:30 am 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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While trying to buy new wheels from Banebots, I found out that even if I'm just buying a few wheels the postage is still 50 USD, which is ridiculous.

I looked at Colson 3inch wheels (they are a bit bigger, but since I'm going to have new side plates anyway, I don't need to worry about the friction drive.), but I couldn't find proper Colson hubs from anywhere except Banebots.

Does anyone happen to know how to find a cheap substitute for the Banebots wheels and hubs?

Post Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:09 am 
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Nick
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11721
Location: Sydney, NSW


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What What exact wheel do you want to use and what axles do you have - the standard Banebots 1/2" with a key way? Nobody apart from Banebots sells Colson hubs Depending on what you need, I can probably make you some hubs next month.
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UK 2016 Gladiator champion

Post Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:22 am 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Thanks Nick. I'm still not sure about using Colsons, but if I decide to use them, I will be using the 3*7/8" wheels (closest to my current wheels) and I will still use the standard Banebots 1/2" shaft with a keyway. (No that I need to use the keyway though... I currently use a clamp hub and it worked just fine.)

Another concern I had was how wide are those Colsons. (including their hubs) The wheels themselves are just as wide as the Banebots ones, but the colson hubs seem to stick out of the wheels quite a bit. (the Banebots hubs are recessed into the wheels) I wonder in general how far do they stick out cuz I have a somewhat limited width for the wheels.

Post Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:12 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Drive motor update:
I have pretty much decided upon the propdrive 3536s, still calculating the needed KV. I'm planning to match the speed of the 775 brushed I'm using now so probably around 1000kv. (if I go with the 3" Colson I will go with 900kv)

One problem I had was that on the Hobbyking page, the dimensions of the motor were weird to say the least. The product info tab says it's like 90g, while the specs page says it's over 200g. Does anyone have some actual measurements of that motor? (e.g. diameter, distance from mounting face to end of rotor, etc)

EDIT: I was not reading the page carefully enough, the bigger dimensions are probably for the box that the motor comes in, and the actual motor data are at the lower part of the sheet. However, I am suspicious about the diameter provided on the page. When I saw the 3536s at the event they feel wider than the P60s, but the page says they are 35mm wide, 3mm less than the P60s. Some actual measurement would be very helpful to me, thanks in advance.

Post Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Nick
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11721
Location: Sydney, NSW


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I have a pair of Propdrive 35-42 motors fitted onto P60 gearboxes - the motor diameter is definitely less than the P60.

The colson width is measured at the tread and most wheels have wider hubs. I always cut the sides down to match the tread width as part of fitting hubs; there is no point taking up extra width and room. Hubs with clamps are good when the wheel's bore is small but a hub with a key takes up less width and can be lighter too. I can send you some photos late next week.
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Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

Post Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:36 pm 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Thanks for the info. I think I mixed this one up with the drive motor Glen was using, sorry.

A few photos will definitely help.

Post Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:19 am 
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MoonSet416



Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 312
Location: Sydney


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Well, just realized that I'm gonna overvolt the drive motors from 4s to 6s no matter what exact model I choose around the 35-36 size. I wonder what kind of motors are usually better for overvolting given an approximate size? (lower or higher KV, longer or shorter can?)

Also, how can I tell if an ESC can go reverse and accept Simon K? There seem to be all kinds of markings like BLheli and Opto, etc.

Post Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:42 am 
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Glen
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9464
Location: Where you least expect


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Hey, well done at the event, contraption was awesome.

I used these motors for all 3 of my robots - very happy with the motors. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/rotorstar-for-goblin-380-2820-930kv.html?___store=en_us

They share the same mounting pattern as the 550 motor but need the 775 pinion gear (5mm bore). Happily run on 6s and could probably take much more. Very overpowered and under-stressed. Polaris and Glitch don't use more than 300mah a fight from the brushless drives, pretty crazy!

Angus had some NTM equivalents on Vanguard that were half the price. I'm not sure on the model but they are basically identical in size.

The weights are all over the place on hobbyking website but you are right, the heavy one is shipping weight the other is actual product weight, they're about 100-150g anyway.

For the controller I was using these, as did vanguard and frags who blew 1x up. I've got 3 pairs in 3x robots and so good so far.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ztw-spider-series-50a-opto-multi-rotor-esc-2-6s-w-12v-out-simonk-firmware.html

You will need to flash them with simon k using the USB tool https://hobbyking.com/en_us/afro-esc-usb-programming-tool.html

I use RAPIDFLASH for google chrome but others use KKMULTICOPTER TOOL to do the flashing with. Your choice Smile

EDIT - You can also flash the TZ85 botbitz sells - they're definitely a more highly rated controller. Not sure what is involved flashing them but i think you must flash the chip directly and can't do it through the servo lead as you can on the ZTW. Have to ask Steve about that Smile
_________________
www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Post Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:05 pm 
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