Has anyone put much thought into such a bot.

I like the idea of have just a single power source for a flipper type bot(Electricity), also the mechanics intrigues me. I would probably try for two counter rotating flywheels as well, if I could .

I had a bit of search around trying to work out a suitable type of clutch mechanism, and the dog clutch seems to standout.

If anyone has ideas speak up, also sourcing cheap suitable parts.
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www.whyachi.com

warrior SKF. the only one ive seen work. theres another ton of pictures on www.teammadcow.com in the orleans report. never understood how it properly worked. i believe it was basically just a lever that engaged into a spiral thread which pulled back the flipping arm. or something to that degree
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http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

Thats how I see that bot working as well(what an awesome bot). I'm looking for an alternative method.
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Last edited by assassin on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

at work as well, we have a crimping machine that drives a center punch down on a crimp connector and thats powered by a flywheel. ill open her up and take some pics tommorow
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http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

If your serious and it wont get you fired, that would be neat.
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Albert Einstein.

The trick with such systems is the engaging and disengaging of the flipping mechanism with the energy storage system without it breaking. Engaging spinning flywheels is often known as "getting hit by a spinner" in our systems - you have to try and soften the shock, but preserve the energy transfer.

The Whyachi team had to deal with the same issue with "Red Square". A titanium spring powered flipper. They used a winch to pull the spring down, then disengaged the winching gears by pulling them apart.

An article I read somewhere said they had to put a lot of effort into the profile, metallurgy, and hardening process of the winch gear teeth to stop them being ripped off as they disengaged with the power of the spring pushing on them.

As with all high energy machines, its the attention to the fine details that determine survival or failure - the bottom end of a racing engine superficially looks little different to a stock one, but the stock one will fail pretty quick when you put 500hp through it whereas the precision clearances and metallurgy of a race engine holds it together.

Some form of electromagnetic clutch like an automotive airconditioning compressor, or the one Andrew built for his heavyweight Vertex might work.

Or perhaps something like a car-engine camshaft and roller lifter with a rockerarm/lever type arrangement ? a solenoid could hold the lifter above the lobe while the cam/flyer spools up, then when you fire it, a mechanism drops the lifter into engagement while the bump on the lobe is "around the other side" (you would need an electronic sensor to time the engagement moment), then when it comes around, you get the lifting force powered by the flywheels inertia ?

Its an interesting idea. Tricky to pull off though,
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Andrew came up with this idea about 4-5 years ago for Vertex. That was why the Electro Magnet flywheel was also put into Vertex. The best way we saw it, any mechanical mechanism that involves pins, locks and racket designs are going to mechanically fail. The next best thing was going an electric clutch based on a car air conditioner unit.

I've got some videos of a lego test model we made to test the theory out. I was just a simple 50g lego motor bike wheel spun up with a mecano motor and a rubber band belt drive, activating the flipping arm was just a simple dog gear that 8/10 times jammed when it fired. We had some large success with it though, 50g flywheel powering it at a 1:1 ratio to the flipping arm was capable of flipping around 300grams with a decent amount of air....

Andrew originally suggested the idea when we were brainstorming on how to combat Jeff F's hazard like bar spinner "Nightshade" Damn that was a long time ago.....

EDIT: Andrew has a POP of the gear he has been drafting up for an echidna like (Think of Sproings prongs) with a flywheel flipper. But the man has been too busy building this cool Geet generator at the moment, I think he has forgotten about it
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Or for something totally different have a look at Omega Force 2.0 by Dale Heatherington. Thing to remember this was built for the 12lb class for DragonCon Robot Battles which don't allow spinning weapons so this is a work-around of the rules.
http://www.wa4dsy.net/robot/omegaforce2/index.html

I would definitely recommend a look at his other projects. This guy has done some amazing things.
http://www.wa4dsy.net/botblog/
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Although Warrior SKF was a very cool design, I think that engaging flywheels is to difficult to be efficient. For something that is truly time tested, check out roman and medieval siege weapons like the onager and ballista. There are a heap of useful web links out there.
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Thx guys

What are the pros and cons of an aircon clutch out of a car?

http://www.carairconditioningparts.com/manufacturer/17330/17330.html
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Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.

Last edited by assassin on Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

A long time ago I started building a flywheel powered hammer bot using an AC clutch.
I think it would work as a flipper but the weight is prohibitive.

I think just putting the weight into a heavier motor and gearing it in a suitable way would give a better result.

That is what I have in mind for the new Ballistic.

If you wont an AC clutch to play with I can probably find a small one and post it to you.
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I'm on the hunt for a Auto one DC, and the smallest I think. Thx.
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Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein.

How about the large geared motor approach in Wipeout from Team Plumbcrazy? The winch gearboxes that Aaron uses look like a prime candidate for this type of weapon in a featherweight. Using the motor to tension a spring would be cooler though.

Looking at siege weapons and modern components, it seems the easiest springs to tension would be bars (as in crossbow arms) or torsion springs, which you see on everything from clothes pegs to truck tailgates. The torsion spring looks perfect to power a lifting arm and I'm betting someone has already used it in a bot.

EDIT: If you use this concept, you would absolutely have to call it Mousetrap . Does anyone know what the rpm of those winch motors is?
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Last edited by Nick on Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

how big are the AC clutches? last time i had a look at PnP they where pretty massive (5-10kg?). what kind of amps do they pull anyway.
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www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz

not very many amps (a few), and the clutch / pulley assembly should be about a kilo.
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