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Arena Fund?


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timmeh
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 2523
Location: Victoria


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Arena Fund?

Brett would it be a good idea if you started an arena fund so any spare cash from anyone be put in a fund typ thing and have the ammount gole on the forum and how far we have to go before you can buy the bstuff to build a KICKARS arena?

Would anyone els chip in or try get some fund raisers going? and send the money to brett?
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Tim Team Reaper.

Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:02 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Thats a nice thought Tim, but most builders already have plenty of things to spend their money on..

There will be a small entry fee for the next RoboWars, and while you probably dont think of it that way, the builders are already contributing greatly to the event, by building their cool machines and destroying them for the spectators enjoyment. Imagine if the Event Operator had to pay for the machines that got trashed as well Shocked

Thanks to the builders willingness to burn up parts and cash for the adrenalin thrill they get by competing, we can have these events. Its hard to put together an Arena without question, but it doesnt cost much more than 4 or 5 good robots do.. and thanks to the assistance of our friends at Sidetracked (who benefit from the crowds at their premises), I just had to cover all the subsidiary costs like promotion, video etc.

If anyone has any cash lying around that they cant think of anything better to do with Razz feel free to donate it to the event, but I'd honestly rather you spent it on your bots.. they're what make the sport possible.
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Post Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:22 pm 
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chris



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 160
Location: Brisbane


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If you were to charge a fee for entry and start an arena fund, I'm pretty sure it no longer qualifies as a non profit organisation and then we would need to pay a setup fee. Your thoughts on this please
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Mr "squirt"
Team Blazing Star

Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:34 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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not for profit means just that
most clubs which pull in millions of $ are not for profit orginisations
all it means basically is you have to spend the money you take in on stuff for the club/orginisation
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Post Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:01 pm 
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original_carnage
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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Location: Toowoomba(ish), travel to Brisbane


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quote:
not for profit means just that
most clubs which pull in millions of $ are not for profit orginisations
all it means basically is you have to spend the money you take in on stuff for the club/orginisation


Not quite..... "Not-for-profit" organisations can make heaps of money, can own fleets of vehicles, have staff, have millions of $$ in the bank, buy and sell shares/real estate, etc, etc, etc.
The ""Not-for-profit" organisation" part simply states that founders, board members, organisation members, etc cannot make a profit from the organisation (such as the way a person who is in business for themself can draw money from the business as a wage or salary).

I understand the hatred towards any kind of "authority" to control our sport but an association (set up as a "not-for-profit" entity) for participants of our sport could be benefical....
For Example - ***Brett (spokie-tech) once said/typed that this web site costs him $400 per year to operate (not counting his time administrating it)
***An arena fund could easily pay for large event arenas (such as state/national "championships)
***Insurance could cover all approved events (e.g. general consent on the use of a safe arena, etc)
***Become a point of contact for possible sponsors / event organisers, T.V. stations, etc, etc.

With small annual fees taken from everyone plus a slice of the entrance fees from competitions, Brett wouldn't be out of pocket, we could all be insured, arenas built, etc

Just a suggestion mind you - no doubt heaps of people will chant the usual "anti-authority" slogans... this association wouldn't be an "authority" but more in the nature of a sport participants "union" - for want of a better word
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Post Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:50 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


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I'm typically against "authority" for a simple reason.. it usually takes more than it gives..

As you pointed out, many "not for profit" organisations nontheless seem to have plenty of $$ to spend on things that dont quite look right to me. The "World Vision" headquarters is located in my suburb, and you should see the carpark full of BMW's..Rolling Eyes

If an association has the ability to offer something beneficial to the sport, I'll listen. If it looks like its going to be an arena for political grandstanding and generating rules and regulations with no tangible real-world results, then I can get along just fine without one thanks.

I seriously doubt that an Association could have any financial viability at the present level of the sport in Australia. There are perhaps 50 serious Robot Builders around Australia at present.. say 15-20 in each state, if each builder contributed a $50/yr membership, each state would have ~$1000.

Thats not enough to build even *1* wall of a serious arena, much less hire a venue or anywhere to put it. A full size side-tracked style arena will cost in excess of $5000 to build, and I dont think people from any state are going to want to pay to build an arena in another state. Insurance ? Try around $2,000-$10,000 *per event* and you will be in the ball park.

Also, in my experience with a multitude of clubs and other organisations, as soon as any sort of association begins to accumulate funds, you then need to hold elections, AGM's, incorporation, presidents, secretarys, accountants, and a whole swag of beauracracy to properly admister those funds to keep it all legit. Of course, then the costs of running that beauracracy are deducted from the funds as expenses, and a lot of the members time is taken up with the administration of those positions.

Finally, the sitatution eventually arises whereby the people who are primarily interested in buidling and competing (or whatever the aossciation is supposedly about), forgoe the boring admin jobs to the sort of people who actually like doing that admin stuff, and you end up with a group of people representing your organisation who probably havent laid hands on a spanner in years (if ever) and would rather talk than do.. Power games and leadership challenges result and the membership of the club/association become disillusioned with the whole thing.

If things are run the way the Americans do it, with each Event Operator (EO) being the boss of his "business", and we all talk to each other like we do through the forums, this sort of politicking is avoided completely..

Given that we already have an international set of standards and rules to build to, I fail to see any other benefit that having an association could offer us at this time. If anyone can run some *actual* real numbers and show me that there are financial benefits to be had, then I'll think about it..
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Post Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:31 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 4436
Location: Sydney


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quickie
i dont think there is an advantage to an orginisation running the sport and holding events etc the "event organiser" system is pretty good.
perhaps something a little like tripoly for rockets (just a thaught) you have an orginisation so that you can deal with other orginisations, so you have a company to speak to insurers and to "certify" things etc. but they arent responsiblle for anything in and of themselvs, they are just there to be used by organisers/manufacturers etc.

if EO sees that compeditor X's radio has been robo-werks approved then its a known quanity for them, nothing saying they cant accept other radios but just some kind of built to standard type thing.

mmm wasnt that quick after all
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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:06 am 
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original_carnage
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 326
Location: Toowoomba(ish), travel to Brisbane


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Yeah I agree with comments about "authority", and at this time there may not be enough people to warrant some kind of association, besides the fact it is a red tape nightmare to try and establish a multi-state "not-for-profit" organisation.... I can forsee that in the future (10+ years) it may be needed...

I'd happily send some $$ to you to help with the cost of this great site, Brett (if every Aussie who takes part in this fine sport was to send a meagre $10, you wouldn't be out of pocket) Smile

I've been involved with lots of "not-for-profit" associations (from table-top wargammers/ role-players, through gridiron football & other contact sports, to RC drag racing clubs and major RC car associations). What I'm trying to get at is the old cliche` "many hands make light work" -or in this case many small $ contributions add up to a decent amount that could benefit the sport... perhaps with helping to fund an arena or insurance (I know they are expensive but everything has to start somewhere)

to repeat myself...this association wouldn't be an "authority" but more in the nature of a sport participants "union" - for want of a better word
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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:55 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
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Location: Melbourne, Australia


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Thanks for the offer of support for the website Original Carnage, but its really not necessary..

The RoboWars.org domain and hosting was paid for anyway as our personal teams (and anyone else who wants to setup a team page - more on that in a mo) website originally, and the addition of the forum only required that I increase the hosting plan a notch or two to allow for the greater storage and traffic allocations that the forum takes up, so while the site as a whole does cost around $400/yr a year to run, the forum itself only adds about $100/yr of that. hardly worth bothering about..

As I said, the greatest thing you can do to help the sport along in Australia at this time is to build more robots and start agitating for somewhere to fight them locally..

I think at the moment, a venue like SideTracked is ideal, since they already have the facilities to cope with the public, food, toilets, parking, insurance, lighting, ticketing, staff etc etc. If you really want to push things along, then visit a few go-kart tracks or similair entertainment places, suggest the idea to them, and then see if you can get each builder in your area to buy a sheet of polycarb (about $200) and fabricate the arena walls between you.

Once you have a few modular-style walls that can be assembled in a variety of places, you are on the road to being able to hold events in any public place that will allow you to put on a show as an attraction to help bring people along to that venue. Once each state has a publicly accesible arena that will allow a decent size competition 1-3 times a year, then there will be more motivation for more builders to get into the sport, and things can grow from there.
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Post Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:07 pm 
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