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Waddy the phoenix



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 971
Location: sydney


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quote:
Originally posted by Waddy the phoenix:
ok well im not great at this (im at work and concentration isnt in this post but...) what if you had it that if there is a by and there is uneven numbers on both the winners and loosers tree they fight eachother that gets that ne covered as for people getting more than 1 by why not set it in the program that if they get a by they cant get another or if they get a by they have to fight against a randomly drawn bot that has been eliminated due to double elim that way they stll have to win to continue else they get droped down to the losers tree or elim if they are already there i think that works well and what should it matter if the bot has been taken out already the only time it changes is if you have an uneven start but then you could flip acoin as to what tree tey get placed in ie heads they count as having won tails they count as having lost though i think thats probably a little unfair i will try and think of a solution as i go but thats my ideas on it

i personally think that the random idea is much better

and jake im ot positive what your asking in "batching" if ou meen havig it written in batch format then yeah but batch from the sounds of it wont work well o the big screen other than that i dont know sorry ;S

cheers
wayde


im at home here is my disection of my message


quote:
what if you had it that if there is a by and there is uneven numbers on both the winners and loosers tree they fight eachother that gets that ne covered as for people getting more than 1 by


if you had a bye from the winners and the loosers tree because of uneven numbers you have the winer and the looser fight it out (no matter what tier) then if the winner looses the fight they go to the looser tree and the looser that would have won continues along so basically the bot from the winners tree gets through no matter what it just depends weither it has a "life" left or if it is on its last chance


quote:
why not set it in the program that if they get a by they cant get another


ok a marker system in the program basically marks down who has had a bye and who hasnt if you already have had a bye it randomly selects another bot simple enough i think


quote:
if they get a by they have to fight against a randomly drawn bot that has been eliminated due to double elim that way they stll have to win to continue else they get droped down to the losers tree or elim if they are already there


basically another option to the bye problem is to have the bot with a bye fight a bot that has already been eliminated though this would only work from 2nd tier on either tree so basically say you had:

A, B, C

A fights B and C gets bye

A wins and B is eliminated so rather than C getting the bye C hast to fight B

now ofcourse with more bots than 3 for the teir you would do a random selection of all the bots eliminated due to loss and the randomly selected bot pairs off against the bot with the bye if the bot with the bye wins it continues along if it looses it gets droped to the loosers tree if its already there it gets eliminated aswell now obviously if say the bot with the bye was a very high destructive bot some people arnt going to want to pit their bot against it if there is no chance to gain from it so some one else may have to take up the chalange and if no one else wants to i guess flip a coin




quote:
the only time it changes is if you have an uneven start but then you could flip acoin as to what tree tey get placed in ie heads they count as having won tails they count as having lost though i think thats probably a little unfair


in the first match off if you have odd numbers you could flip a coin to decide what tree they get onto obviously its unfair (for instance your bot might have an 80% victory to loss ratio and you get thrown on the loosers tree just because of luck but yeah)

i hope that clears it up a bit

cheers
wayde
(now im going to bed Smile)
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Post Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Ajax
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Sydney


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My thoughts are

The tree needs to consist using standard number 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc

Now at the moment there are 20 bots competing. This will mean that the 32 Comp tree will need to be used.

This will leave 12 Bye's

For the first round use the random selection as stated. and spread the bye's evenly thru the first round. Using the random selection for the bye’s

this will eliminate the bye's in the first round for the winners tree. (unless there is a retirement)

In the losers tree, the second round will now have the bye's in there. which is fixed

after the second round is completed. All the bye's are finished with.

Unless there is a retirement

I think this would solve most of the problems
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:52 am 
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Valen
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there is always a bye in the loosers tree from the penultimate winners tree.
where you have the final fight in the winners tree you get 1 looser.
he goes into the loosers round where you have 2 compeditors at that stage
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:31 am 
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Daniel
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Here is the world standard 32 position double elimanation tree and is also the same as what was used at RoboWars III except for the bye positions. Sorry, I drew it in AutoCAD so its a bit big and blurry.



I added the 22 robots already entered in the compitition and marked in the the initial draw where the different robots from different states will be placed. With the robots from each state placed in their proper color, draw randomly from 3 hats, you will get to fight at least 2 robots from another state before it becomes to hard to predict.

Also there are 2 byes that are marked in green in the initial draw. If 2 more robots enter the compitition they will be placed in these 2 spots first. Once there spots are filled no byes will make it past the first loosers round. This bye distrabution is what is mentioned in the RFL standard match rules (I hope).

Also the way robots are moved from the winners side to the loosers side should follow the colors I have marks otherwise you run the rsk of fighting the same robot twice in the early stages of the compitition. Plan B vs IG and Vertical Limits vs Reboot first fights were early in the compitition and the second fights toward the end, so we obversly had 2 good robots draw together early on.


Any questions?

Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Looks good to me. Very Happy

Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:01 pm 
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Daniel
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Nope, changed my mind. If those 2 green byes stay there you will need to swap every second color in Round 2 of the loosers side just to make is a bit even.

Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:19 pm 
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marto
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Brisbane, QLD


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I think its best to keep a set tree for now and the state seeding in the first round would be good.

After that I don't think it would be possible to seed but i do like the sound of a random draw each round. It would make it more exciting not knowing who your up against next.

However as brett said its a bit hard to do now as it sorta needs the majorities support.

A few examples of how it could turn out might help the case for the pools and random draw as its very hard to understand whats happening.
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Daniel
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More scribbling:

Friday

12pm - 4 or 4:30pm: Demos, testing, first round of light weights.
4 or 4:30pm - 5pm: The draw and marshaling
5pm - 6:30pm: Round 1

Saturday
Before 12pm: Damn well be ready
12pm: Start Round 1 of winners side
30 minute break
Round 2 of loosers
Round 2 of Winners
Round 3 of Loosers
30 minute break
Round 4 of Loosers
Round 3 of Winners
Thats finish at roughly 5pm so 2 more hours of Demos, testing and Light weight round 2

Sunday
Before 12pm: Damn well be ready
12pm: Start Round 5 of Loosers side
30 minute break
Round 6 of Loosers
Round 4 of Winners
20 Minute break
Round 7 of Loosers
30 minute break
Round 8 of Loosers
Another 30 minute break
The Final
Roughly that finish at 3pm. So more demos, melees, Lightweight.


There is going to be a lot of time to fill so we can space things out a bit. There is 2 hours to fill at the end of both Saturday and Sunday.

Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:54 pm 
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kkeerroo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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What do you actualy do at work all day?
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:57 pm 
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Glen
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my guess is that he has just fooled everyone into thinking he works XD

that schedule looks great to me, especially the late start of the rounds on the friday.
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:00 pm 
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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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Do Daniel's times seem reasonable to everyone?
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:43 pm 
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marto
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Suits me fine.
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Post Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:32 pm 
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Valen
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Progress!

i Successfully have VB playing videos on command
and whats more i have them moving around the screen smoothly

This will be used in the presentation program to show movies in the "attract" phase and to show bot introductions.

if we can get the latency down we may also be able to use it to display the live camera feed.

i think that means we need < 200ms latency from the time it hits the CCD in the camera to the time it hits the big screen.
no easy feat trying to bash windows media player into that.
any suggestions? or do we just flick over to an S-Vid feed
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Post Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:31 am 
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